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darkhollowarcher
- Posts: 322
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:20 pm
- Location: tioga co. pa.
RE
Very well said liv2hnt ,! i will never understand or agree with the shooting of fawns and very small bucks (brown &down syndrome)
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darkhollowarcher
- Posts: 322
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:20 pm
- Location: tioga co. pa.
re
Guess we will just have to agree to disagree, fortunatly here in pa. the buck has to have at least three pts on one side to be legal in my area and four pts to one side in the rest of the state. as for small game i dont shoot it big or small. Bob
Hey there. I have alot I can say on this topic, but I will just say this.
If you do go out and decide to shoot a monster buck in and area that is surrounded by fencing, by all means go for it. If you think that is what you think hunting is all about, no one I think taught the ethincs and respect of the sport. And finally, if you do shoot a trophy buck, dont brag about it, its like taking candy from a baby, and I think thats nothing worth bragging about in my books. Cheers!!!
brownie
And if I have time I might say little more about it.
If you do go out and decide to shoot a monster buck in and area that is surrounded by fencing, by all means go for it. If you think that is what you think hunting is all about, no one I think taught the ethincs and respect of the sport. And finally, if you do shoot a trophy buck, dont brag about it, its like taking candy from a baby, and I think thats nothing worth bragging about in my books. Cheers!!!
brownie
And if I have time I might say little more about it.
Re: RE
Heck this is pretty much the same argument I use to use with women when I was single "Telling them SIZE does NOT really matter"jh45gun wrote:Hey Bob it is pretty easy for these guys to act sanctimonious on the web. I wonder how many small ones they have shot either on purpose or accident? I know hunting group that you have to shoot eight point or larger and no does. Now if that is not a egotistical contest to feed the ego I do not know what is. Of course no one says anything about the deer they kill during bow season so the freezer is full already with average deer. For the record a lot of places want deer killed I know they do in Bob's area due to CWD. Where I live in the same state we do not have that worry, but the state still wants lots of deer killed. Now you big bucks only guys can preach and belittle but where I live guys from MN come in and bring home does and fawns by the truck and trailer load back to MN. I like Venison as much as they do and if I get a chance to harvest a deer I will as if I do not they will. They can come over here and buy 2 tags a day at 20 bucks a pop for antlerless permits. I have seen them standing in line and laughing about it. I would bet that Bob can back up that story. Hey Bob I agree on the cable/satellite TV it is a waste of money for what you get. I do not have it either. If I want to see a good movie I go rent it where I have my choice anyway.bstout wrote:I hope you hunt squirrels, rabbits and all other game with the same ethic.darkhollowarcher wrote:Very well said liv2hnt ,! i will never understand or agree with the shooting of fawns and very small bucks (brown &down syndrome)
I've never tried to guess the age of a grouse as it's heading away from me.
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hawg hunter
- Posts: 356
- Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:31 pm
- Location: San Antonio, Texas
shooter bucks
i have hunted most of my life from the age of 10 to60. a trophy deer is what you as the hunter sees. in Texas where i live hunting is BIG Business. agood lease runs from around 1200 to 8500 ayear. this is year round. kill doves , varmits, hogs or fish.; but only one trophy deer. the ranchers let you kill does and spikes.until the present year my friends and i hunted 10000 acres of land in what is called the cross timbers. last year one of us killed a exceptional buck. about 165 B&C . since we have to take our deer to the ranch biologist for ageing and weighing . the owner found out and tripled the price. all the work we did in game management on this ranch went out the window. the owner has that right but we as hunters developed his deer herd.
Makes a guy think he should pay an option for a long term gig up front to this greedy bastard. To late now of course. I think if I was to shop for a different setup I would get something in writing up front, you put a lot of sweat equity in to his herd, you need secured rights stated in the form of a contract. What a shame, I hate to hear about people doing stuff like that to there neighbors, it's a sad thing.
jh45gun... I am sorry if you feel my comments are out of line or off base. I am simply stating my views based upon my experiences. I could be wrong. I have been many times before, and I will be many times in the future, I am sure. That is why we are human. As free thinking humans, we have the right to think and say whatever we want. I am gratefull for this site and the opportunity it gives us to get to know each other and to express ourselves and our beliefs. With that said I would like to thank you for your response but point out that you could have said your piece without belittleing me or resorting to profanity and insults. This is a civil site for families including children right? I guess I may have touched a nerve with you in this case, or maybe you have something against me because I spoke out against your boasting about how you like to shoot deer in the rear. I don't know. I understand the fact that people can let their emotions get the best of them in certain situations and I will not hold that against you. You have all the right in the world to say what you did, how you did, but I for one feel that it says a lot about your character that you chose to respond the way you did. Now on to your response.
You said:
We have found out a long time ago that for a healthy heard some does and fawns should be taken. If it is a tough winter the small ones are the first to go anyway. Sure I like a large deer like every one else does. I also like Venison and filling my freezer does not mean I have a blood lust for killing anything that moves. Sometimes that may be the only deer you may be able to harvest.
I say:
I stated in my post that I encourage the taking of does so we see eye to eye on that but show me one QDM plan that encourages the taking of fawns. It is true that fawns are the first to feel the effects of a harsh winter but unless you are god you have no idea how severe the winter will be or which fawns will die. Therefore, I feel you have no right to shoot fawns and the fact that you use that argument to make it ethical is absured. Next, I agree with you that we all like large deer and filling our freezer. As I stated before we can all fill our freezer by shooting mature deer. If a fawn is the only deer we may be able to harvest that day then I say go home empty handed and hope for better luck next time.
Next, you quoted me as saying:
I can understand shooting anything if you are new to hunting and not very skilled, or if you only have a few days to hunt and need meat, or if your starving and poor, or old or disabled and can't get a giant deer out of the woods by yourself.
Your response was:
This is the most egotistical bull---- I have ever read on this forum! My arn't we the big white hunter! So you think if we are poor or old or handicapped we should be pitied then it is ok to shoot a little one other wise we should refrain? I am no beginner I have shot lots of deer with a rifle and pistol and bow now xbow. I have enjoyed every one I have harvested and that includes the smaller ones too. There has been several guys here lately who shot small ones who were very happy that they did to them it was a trophy. Your post demeans them and every one else here who shoot meat for the freezer. Yea some of us do that. Like the others said horns are nice to hang on the wall but you cannot eat them.
I say:
I am sorry that you are offended by my comment but I stand by it. I think you can't find any logical argument against me so you are trying to bend my comment into an attack against the poor, old, or disabled (politicaly correct, Handicapped is considered as an outright insult by most of the disabled population in this country.) I however was not trying to attack anyone except the one's I deemed slobs and I appologize to anyone poor old or disabled who took it as that. I as a rational and sane adult am sorry for all of those that can't function in the same ways as a perfectly healthy young adult. It is a fact that the world tries to make accomidations to anything that it can to help people with special needs operate or function in a more independant way. It does it with children, the disabled, and elderly. Is the world biggoted by doing this? I don't think so. Is it pittying these people? I don't know, maybe, but that is another debate.
I also said in my post that I value everything killed small or large, buck or doe as a trophy becuse they are all gods creatures and they died for me my family and friends to have life, therefore they deserve my utmost respect. I have never posted anything negative on anyones thread about their little deer because it is not my place to police them and demean them. I don't know their situations and why they took a small deer and it isn't my job to find out. I think that my post and it's content are perfectly acceptible because it was posted on a thread that discussed this topic. I appologize to anyone out there that is offended but these are my views and you can take them or leave them. You are all capable of thinking for yourselves and I expect you to do so and I also expect you to get over it if I hurt you. The world is far from perfect so feathers will always be ruffled.
Your next quote of me was this:
biggest, oldest, most reclusive, and smartest deer in the woods. They are hard to find and even harder to kill so they not only look awesome but they often say something about the hunters skill level and integrity. Face it, every hunter rich or poor, values big bucks
Your reply:
Yea every one like a big buck for bragging rights who does not but Large bucks can be the dumbest animal in the woods expecially during the rut. A large smart doe normally is the one that is the smart one and even they can have their moments of stupidity. I have seen both large bucks and does act stupid I bet we all have. At times they may be smart, but they at times act pretty stupid too. Your comments show that guys who believe that with the big horns and the smartest deer on the planet and I got him BS just shows more egotisical nonsense. I am handicapped now and deer hunting is tougher. To read what you wrote is pretty much a slap in the face. While it takes skill to hunt I think most of us can agree that every year some one takes a huge buck to blind luck. No skill there is there. There are a lot uf us here who hunt to fill the freezer and we are not al lazy or beginners or poor or starving or handicapped nor do we have a blood lust. I for one feel your comments were way out of line.
I say:
You are wrong, not everyone values big bucks for bragging rights. I have never bragged about one large buck that I have shot that I know of and I hope I never will. My reasons for hunting have nothing to do with other people so bragging is of no bennefit to me. Infact, I think bragging only takes away from the glory of my trophies.
Also, I do believe that big, old bucks are the smartest deer in the woods etc. They can be stupid like every other thing on this planet but they got that big for a reason. Because they were smart and lucky enough not to get shot. My proof is how everyone here acts when the rut comes in. They all know that big bucks are the hardest to get and the rut is the best opportunity for a big buck to get stupid and be vulnerable. I am not saying that a big old doe is stupid by any means but they do travel in groups almost all the time and that is not a very good survival strategy right there. As for luck, I have always said that hunting is like 90% luck and 10% skill. I believe it whole heartedly and my luck provides opportunities for does way more often than bucks. That is part of the reason I don't brag, because anyone can have luck and most of the time luck plays a major role in our success. Because of the value of luck I think it is impossible to measure who is a better hunter, you may be able to say who is more knowledgable but you can't say who's best. Even though it is impossible to measure a hunters ability, the guys who consistently beat the odds and bring home the big ones year after year are probably the smartest ones or the luckiest ones. I hope I can be one of them someday.
As for your other post which I shouldn't respond to because it has nothing to do with the topic. I have shot two small deer in my life. One was a spike that was my first bow kill at the age of 16. The other came a couple years after and it was a three point that somebody had nearly blown a leg off of. It came hobling by me looking very bad with the leg dragging behind and connected by just a little flesh and hide, so I put it down. Thats it, but even if I had shot a small deer in the past for no good reason it would not affect the way I feel or act now.
As for shooting small deer by accident. It has never happened because: 1. I am experienced and I can tell the relative age of a deer by looking at it.
2. I always do my best to make sure the area behind my target is clear before I shoot. That means I don't take snap shots the second I see brown before I can judge it's size. That is one of the most important lessons in huner education, I suggest you take it for your sake and for the people who share your neck of the woods.
As for Bstout's comment. I am talking about deer. Not small game. I havn't hunted small game in 15 years probably, except doves because I prefer to spend my time going after deer. I can't tell the age of a dove but I would if I could and I wouldn't shoot the small ones.
JH... If you think I am being egotistical, so be it. I have probably been called worse. I think that you are the egotistical one here after reading your posts though. I prefer to think I am being as ethical and truthfull as possible but I will never stop trying to better myself or stop learning. I realize that I hold myself to higher standards than most and I tend to take things to the extreme when hunting is concerned. I feel I owe that to god and all his creatures. I don't look down on people who are not like myself unless they are slobs and even then I wouldn't say I look down on them as much as pitty them. Some of the points I made here are debateable for sure and I look forward to your rebutle as well as anyone else's. My original and simple point was that freezers could be kept full by shooting mature deer not fawns. If you can't find a mature deer then go home and wait for next time. If the season ends and your freezer isn't full. Too bad, thats life, better luck next year. Thats why we hunt and don't shoot or kill.
You said:
We have found out a long time ago that for a healthy heard some does and fawns should be taken. If it is a tough winter the small ones are the first to go anyway. Sure I like a large deer like every one else does. I also like Venison and filling my freezer does not mean I have a blood lust for killing anything that moves. Sometimes that may be the only deer you may be able to harvest.
I say:
I stated in my post that I encourage the taking of does so we see eye to eye on that but show me one QDM plan that encourages the taking of fawns. It is true that fawns are the first to feel the effects of a harsh winter but unless you are god you have no idea how severe the winter will be or which fawns will die. Therefore, I feel you have no right to shoot fawns and the fact that you use that argument to make it ethical is absured. Next, I agree with you that we all like large deer and filling our freezer. As I stated before we can all fill our freezer by shooting mature deer. If a fawn is the only deer we may be able to harvest that day then I say go home empty handed and hope for better luck next time.
Next, you quoted me as saying:
I can understand shooting anything if you are new to hunting and not very skilled, or if you only have a few days to hunt and need meat, or if your starving and poor, or old or disabled and can't get a giant deer out of the woods by yourself.
Your response was:
This is the most egotistical bull---- I have ever read on this forum! My arn't we the big white hunter! So you think if we are poor or old or handicapped we should be pitied then it is ok to shoot a little one other wise we should refrain? I am no beginner I have shot lots of deer with a rifle and pistol and bow now xbow. I have enjoyed every one I have harvested and that includes the smaller ones too. There has been several guys here lately who shot small ones who were very happy that they did to them it was a trophy. Your post demeans them and every one else here who shoot meat for the freezer. Yea some of us do that. Like the others said horns are nice to hang on the wall but you cannot eat them.
I say:
I am sorry that you are offended by my comment but I stand by it. I think you can't find any logical argument against me so you are trying to bend my comment into an attack against the poor, old, or disabled (politicaly correct, Handicapped is considered as an outright insult by most of the disabled population in this country.) I however was not trying to attack anyone except the one's I deemed slobs and I appologize to anyone poor old or disabled who took it as that. I as a rational and sane adult am sorry for all of those that can't function in the same ways as a perfectly healthy young adult. It is a fact that the world tries to make accomidations to anything that it can to help people with special needs operate or function in a more independant way. It does it with children, the disabled, and elderly. Is the world biggoted by doing this? I don't think so. Is it pittying these people? I don't know, maybe, but that is another debate.
I also said in my post that I value everything killed small or large, buck or doe as a trophy becuse they are all gods creatures and they died for me my family and friends to have life, therefore they deserve my utmost respect. I have never posted anything negative on anyones thread about their little deer because it is not my place to police them and demean them. I don't know their situations and why they took a small deer and it isn't my job to find out. I think that my post and it's content are perfectly acceptible because it was posted on a thread that discussed this topic. I appologize to anyone out there that is offended but these are my views and you can take them or leave them. You are all capable of thinking for yourselves and I expect you to do so and I also expect you to get over it if I hurt you. The world is far from perfect so feathers will always be ruffled.
Your next quote of me was this:
biggest, oldest, most reclusive, and smartest deer in the woods. They are hard to find and even harder to kill so they not only look awesome but they often say something about the hunters skill level and integrity. Face it, every hunter rich or poor, values big bucks
Your reply:
Yea every one like a big buck for bragging rights who does not but Large bucks can be the dumbest animal in the woods expecially during the rut. A large smart doe normally is the one that is the smart one and even they can have their moments of stupidity. I have seen both large bucks and does act stupid I bet we all have. At times they may be smart, but they at times act pretty stupid too. Your comments show that guys who believe that with the big horns and the smartest deer on the planet and I got him BS just shows more egotisical nonsense. I am handicapped now and deer hunting is tougher. To read what you wrote is pretty much a slap in the face. While it takes skill to hunt I think most of us can agree that every year some one takes a huge buck to blind luck. No skill there is there. There are a lot uf us here who hunt to fill the freezer and we are not al lazy or beginners or poor or starving or handicapped nor do we have a blood lust. I for one feel your comments were way out of line.
I say:
You are wrong, not everyone values big bucks for bragging rights. I have never bragged about one large buck that I have shot that I know of and I hope I never will. My reasons for hunting have nothing to do with other people so bragging is of no bennefit to me. Infact, I think bragging only takes away from the glory of my trophies.
Also, I do believe that big, old bucks are the smartest deer in the woods etc. They can be stupid like every other thing on this planet but they got that big for a reason. Because they were smart and lucky enough not to get shot. My proof is how everyone here acts when the rut comes in. They all know that big bucks are the hardest to get and the rut is the best opportunity for a big buck to get stupid and be vulnerable. I am not saying that a big old doe is stupid by any means but they do travel in groups almost all the time and that is not a very good survival strategy right there. As for luck, I have always said that hunting is like 90% luck and 10% skill. I believe it whole heartedly and my luck provides opportunities for does way more often than bucks. That is part of the reason I don't brag, because anyone can have luck and most of the time luck plays a major role in our success. Because of the value of luck I think it is impossible to measure who is a better hunter, you may be able to say who is more knowledgable but you can't say who's best. Even though it is impossible to measure a hunters ability, the guys who consistently beat the odds and bring home the big ones year after year are probably the smartest ones or the luckiest ones. I hope I can be one of them someday.
As for your other post which I shouldn't respond to because it has nothing to do with the topic. I have shot two small deer in my life. One was a spike that was my first bow kill at the age of 16. The other came a couple years after and it was a three point that somebody had nearly blown a leg off of. It came hobling by me looking very bad with the leg dragging behind and connected by just a little flesh and hide, so I put it down. Thats it, but even if I had shot a small deer in the past for no good reason it would not affect the way I feel or act now.
As for shooting small deer by accident. It has never happened because: 1. I am experienced and I can tell the relative age of a deer by looking at it.
2. I always do my best to make sure the area behind my target is clear before I shoot. That means I don't take snap shots the second I see brown before I can judge it's size. That is one of the most important lessons in huner education, I suggest you take it for your sake and for the people who share your neck of the woods.
As for Bstout's comment. I am talking about deer. Not small game. I havn't hunted small game in 15 years probably, except doves because I prefer to spend my time going after deer. I can't tell the age of a dove but I would if I could and I wouldn't shoot the small ones.
JH... If you think I am being egotistical, so be it. I have probably been called worse. I think that you are the egotistical one here after reading your posts though. I prefer to think I am being as ethical and truthfull as possible but I will never stop trying to better myself or stop learning. I realize that I hold myself to higher standards than most and I tend to take things to the extreme when hunting is concerned. I feel I owe that to god and all his creatures. I don't look down on people who are not like myself unless they are slobs and even then I wouldn't say I look down on them as much as pitty them. Some of the points I made here are debateable for sure and I look forward to your rebutle as well as anyone else's. My original and simple point was that freezers could be kept full by shooting mature deer not fawns. If you can't find a mature deer then go home and wait for next time. If the season ends and your freezer isn't full. Too bad, thats life, better luck next year. Thats why we hunt and don't shoot or kill.
A bad day in the woods is better than a good day anywhere else.
I have to agree with LV2HNT. All of the local landowners around me have agreed to kill only does and bucks that are at least 8 points and the rack as wide as the ears. Several thousand acres of prime private ground are now committed, and since I hunt one of the farms involved, I don't have much choice in the deal. I'll tell you in a few years if it works.
I had 6 bucks walk by me at 15 yds a few days ago and didn't fire a shot. The largest was a decent 8 pointer that might have just met the rules, so this thing has cost me meat already for sure.
To make things more interesting, we have all chipped into a pool for the largest doe by weight and the largest buck by antler size. It's $20 for each of the two pools, and we have 20 people participating. This gives us a little incentive to go after the big ones.
While this deer management is a noble idea, we have thousands of acres of gov't ground near us and I think the hunters on the public ground close by will negate any gains we make. At least some.
I had 6 bucks walk by me at 15 yds a few days ago and didn't fire a shot. The largest was a decent 8 pointer that might have just met the rules, so this thing has cost me meat already for sure.
To make things more interesting, we have all chipped into a pool for the largest doe by weight and the largest buck by antler size. It's $20 for each of the two pools, and we have 20 people participating. This gives us a little incentive to go after the big ones.
While this deer management is a noble idea, we have thousands of acres of gov't ground near us and I think the hunters on the public ground close by will negate any gains we make. At least some.
!![quote="jh45gun"]Wether you agree with it or not Texas Heart shots work. I do not think I was boasting just stating my expirences. Shooting a deer with a sharp broadhead in the rear does not waste any meat and they bleed like crazy. Like I said if I ever lost one I may consider the shot as it is I have only shot a couple that way but got every one with out no problems. My buddy shot a large doe that way last week the deer never went over 15 yards bleed out just like that.
jh45gun,
I primarily only use the crossbow for bear over bait as it does not smell (gun oil/powder) near as bad as a gun in my opinion. I always wait for a broadside double lung and hopefully clip the heart if I'm lucky. From the sounds of it your Texas Heart shot is much better and makes the prey expire much more quickly. I guess my main question is would you recommend it for bear and why or why not. From the way it reads they will bleed out so quickly from a rear leg shot as I am assuming you are clipping the 1/2" thick artery and that it should disable them enough to eliminate any charging or having to trail back into the thick bush which are always concerns.
jh45gun,
I primarily only use the crossbow for bear over bait as it does not smell (gun oil/powder) near as bad as a gun in my opinion. I always wait for a broadside double lung and hopefully clip the heart if I'm lucky. From the sounds of it your Texas Heart shot is much better and makes the prey expire much more quickly. I guess my main question is would you recommend it for bear and why or why not. From the way it reads they will bleed out so quickly from a rear leg shot as I am assuming you are clipping the 1/2" thick artery and that it should disable them enough to eliminate any charging or having to trail back into the thick bush which are always concerns.
If you can't Dodge It, Ram IT
I'm a whitetail deer hunter ... I decide when the time comes ... bucks are a bonus , but I have doe tags to fill as well ... bottom line is , I do what feels right at the time ... I feel any shot I take is a trophy moment no matter what the size of the deer is ...
I have taken , big bucks , small bucks , big does , small does ... they all provided me with the " thrill of the hunt " and were " trophy's of the moment "
Sometimes the tag situation dictates what I pass or don't pass ... I at least try to get a picture of them in the same instance I would have been taking the shot ... I say to myself " gotcha "
I hunt for the food , fun in the field with friends and of course the great memories of our adventures ...
bstout wrote :
I have taken , big bucks , small bucks , big does , small does ... they all provided me with the " thrill of the hunt " and were " trophy's of the moment "
Sometimes the tag situation dictates what I pass or don't pass ... I at least try to get a picture of them in the same instance I would have been taking the shot ... I say to myself " gotcha "
I hunt for the food , fun in the field with friends and of course the great memories of our adventures ...
bstout wrote :
Exactly !I like to hunt the shot so to speak.
See Ya. ... R.J. > " Remember , Trophies are measured by the time and energy expended to get them , not the size or quantity of the quarry "
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Grizzly Adam
- Posts: 5701
- Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:36 pm
- Location: Decatur County, Indiana
Cyclone:
DO NOT shoot a bear in the hip hoping for a femoral artery hit. Please don't even think about trying that on purpose. I'm not kidding; I know what I'm talking about when it comes to black bears. I live with them every day here in East NC; we have far more around than anywhere in the eastern United States, and we have some really big ones. I know hunting them, too.
Bear are not to be fiddled with. They're heavy-boned, heavily muscled creatures that can absorb a lot of non-lethal punishment and still keep on trucking. Yes, they expire quickly when shot in the vitals ... but wound one in the leg with an arrow and you've got trouble ... maybe some very nasty trouble.
A bear's vitals are tough enough to define in some shooting situations, let alone it's hip. The target area is so small and the margin of error so slim in shooting for the femoral artery that it is ONE ABSOLUTELY BAD IDEA. A miss of 1/2", and you've badly wounded an animal that is capable of badly wounding you, and worse. A bear's femur is more than capable of stopping a broadhead from many bows. A bear's ham is capable of stopping an arrow from some bows. There is always the opposing leg to stop a shot, or the pelvis, or the crotch bone. It's just a terrible idea; there are so many ways the shot could go wrong it's no use to try and list them.
You don't want to be tracking a wounded bear that can still move around, believe me. And I trust you don't want to wound one and lose it.
I haven't got a lot of time tonight. Please just take my experienced word for it: DON'T DO IT!
Grizz
DO NOT shoot a bear in the hip hoping for a femoral artery hit. Please don't even think about trying that on purpose. I'm not kidding; I know what I'm talking about when it comes to black bears. I live with them every day here in East NC; we have far more around than anywhere in the eastern United States, and we have some really big ones. I know hunting them, too.
Bear are not to be fiddled with. They're heavy-boned, heavily muscled creatures that can absorb a lot of non-lethal punishment and still keep on trucking. Yes, they expire quickly when shot in the vitals ... but wound one in the leg with an arrow and you've got trouble ... maybe some very nasty trouble.
A bear's vitals are tough enough to define in some shooting situations, let alone it's hip. The target area is so small and the margin of error so slim in shooting for the femoral artery that it is ONE ABSOLUTELY BAD IDEA. A miss of 1/2", and you've badly wounded an animal that is capable of badly wounding you, and worse. A bear's femur is more than capable of stopping a broadhead from many bows. A bear's ham is capable of stopping an arrow from some bows. There is always the opposing leg to stop a shot, or the pelvis, or the crotch bone. It's just a terrible idea; there are so many ways the shot could go wrong it's no use to try and list them.
You don't want to be tracking a wounded bear that can still move around, believe me. And I trust you don't want to wound one and lose it.
I haven't got a lot of time tonight. Please just take my experienced word for it: DON'T DO IT!
Grizz
Strange how animals differ from place to place, bear here in Alaska are members of the hog family. Anybody who has ever cut hog bones will remember they are soft and pulpy. As for the Texas heart shot I recommend it all the time to rifle hunters. IT IS A SURE ANCHOR SHOT! There is only one angle shot I really hesitate on and that is a head on , looking at me shot.
Grizzly Adam wrote:Cyclone:
DO NOT shoot a bear in the hip hoping for a femoral artery hit. Please don't even think about trying that on purpose. I'm not kidding; I know what I'm talking about when it comes to black bears. I live with them every day here in East NC; we have far more around than anywhere in the eastern United States, and we have some really big ones. I know hunting them, too.
Bear are not to be fiddled with. They're heavy-boned, heavily muscled creatures that can absorb a lot of non-lethal punishment and still keep on trucking. Yes, they expire quickly when shot in the vitals ... but wound one in the leg with an arrow and you've got trouble ... maybe some very nasty trouble.
A bear's vitals are tough enough to define in some shooting situations, let alone it's hip. The target area is so small and the margin of error so slim in shooting for the femoral artery that it is ONE ABSOLUTELY BAD IDEA. A miss of 1/2", and you've badly wounded an animal that is capable of badly wounding you, and worse. A bear's femur is more than capable of stopping a broadhead from many bows. A bear's ham is capable of stopping an arrow from some bows. There is always the opposing leg to stop a shot, or the pelvis, or the crotch bone. It's just a terrible idea; there are so many ways the shot could go wrong it's no use to try and list them.
You don't want to be tracking a wounded bear that can still move around, believe me. And I trust you don't want to wound one and lose it.
I haven't got a lot of time tonight. Please just take my experienced word for it: DON'T DO IT!
Don't worry Grizz, I never have nor never will attempt a texas heart shot as the primary first shot. If I cannot get a decent boiler room shot I let them fill up and wait for the next one or day. I just posted the question as ya never know what you might learn which was nothing new in this case.
Thanks,
Cyclone
Grizz
If you can't Dodge It, Ram IT
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KYXbow
I have to say, you had me there for a while......LV2HNT wrote: These days, shooting big bucks is a thing for the rich and I hate it, but it doesn't have to be that way if everyone could just get along and cooperate.
I have shot my share of smaller rack bucks and I have a 101 inch 8 point mounted. And, I have shot does. I do eat my meat or I will give it to a family in need. This year, I have let many many does and smaller bucks walk because I #1 don't want to tag out early in Sept. and not have an opportunity to experience the rut and #2 I am on a quest to get a larger rack buck that my other 6 bucks. But to say that shooting big bucks is for the rich is just flat out ludicrous. I hunt in an area of my state the by no means is a record book area. But, every year, a few people around here will bag a very nice mature buck ranging in the 150 - 180 class. Hey, get this, they are all average joe hunters that don't own the land they hunt on. They are just good woodsman, skilled hunters, and active conservationist. I do believe in "shooter buck" theory the same way I like to harvest a couple 3 year old gobblers every year in the spring. But, I can't buy into "shooting bucks is a thing for the rich"