New Flemish String - Pic Added

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ComfyBear
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New Flemish String - Pic Added

Post by ComfyBear »

A couple of years ago, not being too satisfied with the Center Serving on the store bought strings. I decided to SERVE my own strings.

I found the My serving holds up so much better and lasts much longer than the mass produced ones.

I suppose the saying is true.

"He is SERVED best, he who SERVES himself" Sorry for the pun. :wink:

Anyway, one day while serving one of my strings, I noticed that those "Black and Grey" FastFlight Flemish Twist strings weren't quite balanced. They're made with 23 strands (12 black and only 11 grey).

So I thought: I should be able to make a better string, and I decided to take the next step, and make my own strings.

After doing a bit of research I decided on using Dyneema, it's supposed to be stronger and better then the Spectra material which is used to make the Fastflight strings.

Well, I just completed my first a Flemish Reverse Twist string and I must say that I'm quite impressed the way it turned out. It seems that it's made my Exomag not only quieter, but faster than when using a FF string.
Last edited by ComfyBear on Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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GaryL
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Post by GaryL »

Super ComfyBear, reads like a winner to me. :D
Always learning!!
Home fer now!
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ComfyBear
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Post by ComfyBear »

GaryL wrote:Super ComfyBear, reads like a winner to me. :D
Thanks Gary, it's always great when one can make good things even better.
I call my string FTFFP ....i.e. Faster than FastFlight Plus, since that's what the manufacturer claims. :wink:
ComfyBear
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grandtrout
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Post by grandtrout »

ComfyBear - great thread, I agree home serving sure extends the life of a string.

A few questions if you don't mind - I've concidered making a string for quite a while.

Have you crono'ed the bow to see what improvement is speed you get?

How many strands did you go with (22 or 24)?

Which particular (make , model) string material did you use?

How many bolts have you shot with the new string ~ any signs of wear?
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wabi
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Post by wabi »

I've been making strings for many years now, and I find it's another good "therapy" for relaxation. Plus it takes a lot of worry out of trying to judge when a string needs replaced. If one even looks like it is wearing too much it's inexpensive and easy to make a new one! I usually re-serve once, then retire the old ones.
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Post by TYE »

ComfyBear wrote:
GaryL wrote:Super ComfyBear, reads like a winner to me. :D
Thanks Gary, it's always great when one can make good things even better.
I call my string FTFFP ....i.e. Faster than FastFlight Plus, since that's what the manufacturer claims. :wink:

:lol: :lol:
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ComfyBear
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Post by ComfyBear »

grandtrout wrote:ComfyBear - great thread, I agree home serving sure extends the life of a string.

A few questions if you don't mind - I've concidered making a string for quite a while.

Have you crono'ed the bow to see what improvement is speed you get?

How many strands did you go with (22 or 24)?

Which particular (make , model) string material did you use?

How many bolts have you shot with the new string ~ any signs of wear?
I'm using Brownell's TS PLUS string material.

Here's what Brownell claims:
The ultimate in high performance string material. Made with the same Dyneema material as Fast Flight Plus but with a 0.14 diameter and a slight manufacturing difference. This difference has proven beneficial for the speed and stability of the end product.

When I chronied my Exomag (200lbs) bow, using an 376 gr bolt, I was getting an average speed of 323.5 fps, as opposed to only 322fps when using the store bought Black and Grey FF string. Since my FF is well used and stretched, and my TS PLUS string is still new, I expect that when my string is "fully broken in" that the speed of my bow should increase slightly.

Unlike the store bought FF string, which uses 23 strands, I'm using 24 strands. Since each TS PLUS strand is .014" instead of .015" for the FF material, my finished string is .009" thinner.

The advantage of using an equal number of strands, i.e. 12 for each ply, is that not only is the string rounder and more uniform, but more important, the stress on each ply is equal, making the string more stable.

As a result, I've found that my serving also comes out tighter and more uniforn too.

I've taken approx. 25 shots so far, and found that there is no noticeable sign of wear to my serving. In comparison when using the store bought FF string, even with my serving, after only about 6 shots, I noticed slight indentations on the serving where it was held by the claws of the trigger.

I'm really happy with the results so far.
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Bill T
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Post by Bill T »

Fooling around with different string materials is interesting, but can lead to damage to your limbs. We went to Dyneema endless loop strings a few years back and noticed an increase in damage to limb tips and also to the limbs relative to the fastflight flemish string, especially when a dryfire occurs. We now recommend thet you use only the FFF strings or dacron endless loop. If you guys want to experiment, have at 'er, but remember that you are in dangerous territory.
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Post by ComfyBear »

I have to agree with Bill T. After all, as the maker of one of the best, if not the best crossbow available, it's a given that he knows just a "little bit" about crossbows. :wink:

When he says that certain string material can be dangerous, he is absolutely right. :!:

Before anyone decides to experiment with different string materials, they should do some research.

After I did some research, I chose Brownell TS Plus. Unlike it's predecessor, TS-1, which was made from Spectra, TS Plus is now made from Dyneema.

Spectra is actually Honeywell's trademark name for the material used to make FastFlight strings.

One might ask, what is the difference between Spectra and Dyneema?
The answer, not very much. Both products are HMPE (high modulus polyethlene) materials.
There are two slight differences between, Spectra and Dyneema, the number of filaments and the actual makeup of the yarn. neither of which really effect the performance when the material is used as an archery bowstring.

Here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia Dictionary:
Dyneema or Spectra is a synthetic fiber based on ultra high molecular weight polyethylene which is 15 times stronger than steel and up to 40% stronger than Kevlar. It is usually used in bulletproof vests, bow strings, climbing equipment, fishing line and high performance sails in yachting. Dyneema was invented by DSM in 1979. It has been in commercial production since 1990 at a plant in Heerlen, the Netherlands. In the Far East, DSM has a cooperation agreement with Toyobo Co. for commercial production in Japan. In the United States, DSM has a production facility in Greenville, North Carolina which is the largest production facility in the United States for UHMWPE fiber. Honeywell has developed a chemically identical product on its own. The Honeywell product is sold under the brand name Spectra. Though the production details will undoubtedly be different, the resulting materials are comparable.

If Bill T. recommends using FastFlight then, from reading the above, I would have to think that since Spectra (FastFlight) and Dyneema are comparable materials, Dyneema can be used safely.

Perhaps when Bill T. says that when Dyneema was used, it caused damage to both magtips and limbs, he's referiring to the "Excel" Endless Loop".

I never did like the Excel string :!:

If I'm not mistaken, those Endless loop strings were made from either Brownell Ultra Cam, which is comprised of 56% Vectran and 44% HMPE, or Brownell X-Cell, made from a combination of 1/3Vectran and 2/3 Dyneema.

LCP (Vectran®) , (made from high-modulus fibers produced by melt-spinning from thermotropic liquid crystalline aromatic polyester) has zero creep, and more than likely was the reason for the damage.

So if you're going to make your own strings for your Excalibur crossbow, I would suggest you stay away from any string material that contains Vectran®. Beside the two Brownell string materials named above, BCY's 450 Plus, and 452X also contain Vectran.
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gad
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Re: I Took The Next Step

Post by gad »

ComfyBear wrote:A couple of years ago, not being too satisfied with the Center Serving on the store bought strings. I decided to SERVE my own strings.

I found the My serving holds up so much better and lasts much longer than the mass produced ones.

I suppose the saying is true.

"He is SERVED best, he who SERVES himself" Sorry for the pun. :wink:

Anyway, one day while serving one of my strings, I noticed that those "Black and Grey" FastFlight Flemish Twist strings weren't quite balanced. They're made with 23 strands (12 black and only 11 grey).

So I thought: I should be able to make a better string, and I decided to take the next step, and make my own strings.

After doing a bit of research I decided on using Dyneema, it's supposed to be stronger and better then the Spectra material which is used to make the Fastflight strings.

Well, I just completed my first a Flemish Reverse Twist string and I must say that I'm quite impressed the way it turned out. It seems that it's made my Exomag not only quieter, but faster than when using a FF string.
I am very interested on beginning to do my own strings too (for my excals and compound too). How much did you invested? What I must buy to begin?
I'm all for gun control. To me, gun control is putting 2 bullets in the same hole... UNCLE TED
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ComfyBear
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Post by ComfyBear »

gad wrote:I am very interested on beginning to do my own strings too (for my excals and compound too). How much did you invested? What I must buy to begin?
Since I'm quite handy, and resourceful, and hate to spend money needlessly. I just bought the string materials. I made the jig myself. As far as crafting a Flemish Twist string, it's all done by hand. It takes some time to learn, and can be time-consuming. However, I don't think it's impossible for anyone willing to do so, to learn. I suppose one also gets better, the more strings they make.

Here's a pic of my string:
Image
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Post by gad »

ComfyBear wrote:
gad wrote:I am very interested on beginning to do my own strings too (for my excals and compound too). How much did you invested? What I must buy to begin?
Since I'm quite handy, and resourceful, and hate to spend money needlessly. I just bought the string materials. I made the jig myself. As far as crafting a Flemish Twist string, it's all done by hand. It takes some time to learn, and can be time-consuming. However, I don't think it's impossible for anyone willing to do so, to learn. I suppose one also gets better, the more strings they make.

Here's a pic of my string:
Image
Recently I have unmounted a fff string to reduce the size of the loops (the string was scaping from the limb tips when firing the exomaX). I already understood how it is made. Do you have any plans on how to make string jigs? I also think a lot before spent money, so a home made if low cost, would be nice.
I'm all for gun control. To me, gun control is putting 2 bullets in the same hole... UNCLE TED
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Post by ComfyBear »

I just used a piece of fence board and four 2" finishing nails. Two nails 1/2" apart and the other two nails 26" away from the first two, and also 1/2" part from each other. One complete loop around the nails will give you a strand length of 53".

Since the finished string should be 36", you use the extra 17" to make the two loops, 8.5" for each side. To make your string, make the desired number of loops around the nails, then cut the strands one one side.

You could use just two nails spaced 26.5" apart, and then one complete loop would also give you a strand length of 53".

Hope that helps.
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Post by TYE »

Nice looking string :)
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ComfyBear
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Post by ComfyBear »

TYE wrote:Nice looking string :)

Thanks Tye, maybe if you'd like and you ask nicely, I can make one for you. At a good price of course. :wink: :lol:
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Live thy truth, doth not be false to any man.
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