Hey guys, don't pull a Timothy Treadwell here! Remember that in the video the hunter & guide still had to go back and retrieve the boar that they took first. That probably factored into the decision to shoot the charging sow.
It's easy to say that you wouldn't shoot when you're watching it on a screen and not being charged in person. It's a shame that they shot the 2nd grizzly but grizzlies are one of nature's renewable resources.
Here in Ontario people take it for granted that they don't have to watch their back-trail, but grizzlies do stalk to kill (as do the big cats). If you've lived out west and spend time in the wilderness then well... it's a bit different than wandering through the somewhat less wild woods here in Ontario.
Charging Grizzly Bear footage
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Grizzly Adam
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VixChix said: "Hey guys, don't pull a Timothy Treadwell here!"
Man, that dude was asking for it. I'm surprised he lasted as long as he did! Predators are not our friends.
VixChix also said: "It's easy to say you wouldn't shoot when you're watching it on a screen and not being charged in person."
She's got that right! I'll not offer any commentary on shooting charging grizzly bears as I sit here safe at my computer terminal. Who knows what you'd do in a situation like that? I imagine they did the best they could.
VixChix also said: "It's a shame that they shot the 2nd grizzly but grizzlies are one of nature's renewable resources."
Right again. And it's not just that there are more grizzlies; every human life is inestimably more valuable than the life of an animal. Even the probability that an animal might kill a person justifies the killing of that animal.
So ... let's see what we have here:
$.02 + $.02 + $.02 = $.06
That's my six cents worth.
Man, that dude was asking for it. I'm surprised he lasted as long as he did! Predators are not our friends.VixChix also said: "It's easy to say you wouldn't shoot when you're watching it on a screen and not being charged in person."
She's got that right! I'll not offer any commentary on shooting charging grizzly bears as I sit here safe at my computer terminal. Who knows what you'd do in a situation like that? I imagine they did the best they could.
VixChix also said: "It's a shame that they shot the 2nd grizzly but grizzlies are one of nature's renewable resources."
Right again. And it's not just that there are more grizzlies; every human life is inestimably more valuable than the life of an animal. Even the probability that an animal might kill a person justifies the killing of that animal.
So ... let's see what we have here:
$.02 + $.02 + $.02 = $.06
That's my six cents worth.
Grizz
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bait pile willie
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- Location: london ontario.
unfortnately 3 bears parrished, for the cub will not survive on its own.I have the cmplete hunt on tape as it was on the outdoor channel, one problem was the heavy wind was in the hunters face so the sow could not see them and bears rely on smell far more than their poor eyesight, the sow did not probably recognize them as humans but a threat to her cub.I think the guide waited as long as he could before he shot.he also had to accont for the safety of the hunter and the cameraman.
I have that particular hunt on video as well with more than the clip showed. I agree, that it is a shame about the cub - without it's mother it may well have been canibalized by another boar as that is quite common among bears.
Whenever any of us head out for a hunt, we take certain risks, not just on our own behalf, but on the behalf of the animals that share the land we hunt on, as well as of those people dear to us that stand to lose a family member or friend if something goes wrong.
We all take those risks everytime we go out, but most of the time nothing goes wrong and we enjoy our hunts. BUT if something goes wrong - it's not usually something "black & white". Quick decisions need to be made to limit the potential damage and made the best of a deteriorating situation. In the case of this video, the guide responsible for the group and the hunt did what he thought was the best thing he could do under the circumstances. We can't judge that decision.
Whenever any of us head out for a hunt, we take certain risks, not just on our own behalf, but on the behalf of the animals that share the land we hunt on, as well as of those people dear to us that stand to lose a family member or friend if something goes wrong.
We all take those risks everytime we go out, but most of the time nothing goes wrong and we enjoy our hunts. BUT if something goes wrong - it's not usually something "black & white". Quick decisions need to be made to limit the potential damage and made the best of a deteriorating situation. In the case of this video, the guide responsible for the group and the hunt did what he thought was the best thing he could do under the circumstances. We can't judge that decision.
I think that the guide acted correctly on this hunt guys. His foremost responsibilty besides getting you game is to keep you safe. Looks like he jumped up and got in front of his clients to take the confrontation on himself which is the smartest thing to do. He does not want some paying client to start shooting bullets everywhere and possibly wounding or even killing the bear if there was no need to do so. I believe the guide was hoping the bear would stop but when it got so close I think he decided he had to kill it because if the bear did take that last final lunge it would have been lighting fast and then he would have been at the mercy of the bear and a couple of clients shooting wildly at this bear and probably killing both the guide and bear. Just my observation.
BUCKEYE
A man who makes no mistakes usually doesn't make anything at all.
A man who makes no mistakes usually doesn't make anything at all.
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Grizzly Adam
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Here again we have a running current example of what a wonderful forum this Excalibur site has, and what an exception to the rule it is!
We don't all see this situation the same, and disagree about what should have been done, perhaps ... but look how respectful and cordial we've been with each other so far!
If you want an idea of what goes on in many forums, just check out the commentary below the slide and explanation on the Field and Stream site ... what a bunch of drivel!
ttp://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/outd ... 49,00.html
Once more, I am thankful to be a part of this Excalibur forum.
Refreshingly different.
We don't all see this situation the same, and disagree about what should have been done, perhaps ... but look how respectful and cordial we've been with each other so far!
If you want an idea of what goes on in many forums, just check out the commentary below the slide and explanation on the Field and Stream site ... what a bunch of drivel!
ttp://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/outd ... 49,00.html
Once more, I am thankful to be a part of this Excalibur forum.
Refreshingly different.
Grizz
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sumner4991
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- Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:16 pm
Looked to me like the first shot is what made the sow mad to begin with . . .another "warning" shot may have really gotten her mad 
.
Got to hate the ending, it did look as if she stopped, but she may not have retreated.
. Got to hate the ending, it did look as if she stopped, but she may not have retreated.
I'd rather wear out than rust out.
Perception trumps intention.
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Perception trumps intention.
2006 Exomax w/Agingcrossbower Custom Stock
20" Easton Powerbolts w/125gr Trophy Ridge Stricknines & 2"Blazers
Boo Custom Strings
2006 Vixen
A bear can run about 30 mph which is 44 fps.. It stopped and stood up at 10 yrds./30 feet. I'd say that the hunters were easily 14 feet short of being dinner.
It's not that hard to second guess. TYE had a bear run at him this past season and had to stop it. I don't think he thought about a warning shot and rightly so.
Fight or flight. The second option is ruled out in this equation.
They made their call.
It's not that hard to second guess. TYE had a bear run at him this past season and had to stop it. I don't think he thought about a warning shot and rightly so.
Fight or flight. The second option is ruled out in this equation.
They made their call.
[img]http://photobucket.com/albums/b38/allan_w_/th_tinybuck3hj1.gif[/img]
Exocet your options and exCalibur8 your sights.
Exocet your options and exCalibur8 your sights.
That is one thing about opinions ... " we all got one "
We base our opinions on our beliefs and experiences .... I have an idea of how I would have reacted in those circumstances , and I base my opinion on that .... I believe also that I am the best person to judge how I would or would not act in a situation ....
For example ... There was a program on TV about a hostage situation years ago , where some muslim extremeists had executed some hostages ... after the 4th person was executed , they went to pick the next hostage ... it was a man , and he reacted by pushing a woman in front of him and suggesting they take her instead of him ...
Some other guys at work had seen the show as well and when we were talking about it , one guy said " how do you know you wouldn't do the same ? " he said " unless you are in that situation you can not tell , when faced with certain death you would put anybody in front of you , even women and children " ...
I replied .... " I don't know about you , but I know enough about myself to say for certain , that would not be the case !!!!! " " I hope I am never in that situation , but my convictions are , death before dishonor ! "
I am also certain that I am not the only one that has those convictions ... and I am glad there are not too many people that share the opinion of the guy I was talking to ! ...
Look at those two individual occurances that happend in Iraq over that past 2 weeks ... 2 young soldier paid the ultimate price , when they shielded their comrades from grenade blasts ...... very young men , very brave men !
AW : Posted some pictures of a guy that survived a polar bear attack .... now there is a story ! Wow .... just goes to show how fragile we humans are ... from what I have read our human bodies don't fare well even under a 30 second mauling ... incredible to see he survived .
Mythbusters simualted a grizzly bear attack on TV about a month ago ... the simulated wounds to the human replica were basically the same as the photo's that AW posted ...
Grizzly Adams wrote :
Bite your tounge ! .... that was a low blow !!
My $ 0.02 again !
We base our opinions on our beliefs and experiences .... I have an idea of how I would have reacted in those circumstances , and I base my opinion on that .... I believe also that I am the best person to judge how I would or would not act in a situation ....
For example ... There was a program on TV about a hostage situation years ago , where some muslim extremeists had executed some hostages ... after the 4th person was executed , they went to pick the next hostage ... it was a man , and he reacted by pushing a woman in front of him and suggesting they take her instead of him ...
Some other guys at work had seen the show as well and when we were talking about it , one guy said " how do you know you wouldn't do the same ? " he said " unless you are in that situation you can not tell , when faced with certain death you would put anybody in front of you , even women and children " ...
I replied .... " I don't know about you , but I know enough about myself to say for certain , that would not be the case !!!!! " " I hope I am never in that situation , but my convictions are , death before dishonor ! "
I am also certain that I am not the only one that has those convictions ... and I am glad there are not too many people that share the opinion of the guy I was talking to ! ...
Look at those two individual occurances that happend in Iraq over that past 2 weeks ... 2 young soldier paid the ultimate price , when they shielded their comrades from grenade blasts ...... very young men , very brave men !
AW : Posted some pictures of a guy that survived a polar bear attack .... now there is a story !
Wow .... just goes to show how fragile we humans are ... from what I have read our human bodies don't fare well even under a 30 second mauling ... incredible to see he survived .Mythbusters simualted a grizzly bear attack on TV about a month ago ... the simulated wounds to the human replica were basically the same as the photo's that AW posted ...
Grizzly Adams wrote :
I agree .... I was cool about it ... right up till someone compared some of us to Timothy Treadwell !We don't all see this situation the same, and disagree about what should have been done, perhaps ... but look how respectful and cordial we've been with each other so far!
Bite your tounge ! .... that was a low blow !! My $ 0.02 again !
See Ya. ... R.J. > " Remember , Trophies are measured by the time and energy expended to get them , not the size or quantity of the quarry "
but she did stop and rear up ... and that is usually the end of a bluff charge from footage I have seen and info I have read
"Usually" and "probably" don't cut it with me. If a bear was charging me it's going down. No judgement call to make, no theories to test. My safety and life and that of those who may be with me are infinetely more important than a bear. If a bear is charging, warning shots are a waste of bullets. With a grizzly you may need every shot you've got to bring it down.Shots in front or beside the sow would have probably done the job
R.J., I really hope you never have to test your theory either... I'd miss your pictures.
Ten yards is exceptionally close. I have read that a grizzly can, from a standstill, cover 20 yards in about a second. If that bear stopped at 10 yards I'm guessing you have about a half second to react if that bear decides to continue.A.W wrote:A bear can run about 30 mph which is 44 fps.. It stopped and stood up at 10 yrds./30 feet. I'd say that the hunters were easily 14 feet short of being dinner.
It's not that hard to second guess. TYE had a bear run at him this past season and had to stop it. I don't think he thought about a warning shot and rightly so.
Fight or flight. The second option is ruled out in this equation.
They made their call.
The only black bear I killed was shot at ten yards, while I was on the ground. I was hunting bear. Saw it in a tree. Tried to scare it further up to get a clear shot. It decided to come down the tree instead. Did you know a bear can drop 20 feet at the snap of a finger? When you are standing at the base of a the tree and the bear goes from 60 to 40 feet just like that, you will want to back the heck out of there! Things can happen surprisingly quick.
You can take the man out of the woods but you can't take the woods out of the man.
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Grizzly Adam
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R.J. wrote:
"I agree .... I was cool about it ... right up till someone compared some of us to Timothy Treadwell ! Bite your tounge ! .... that was a low blow !! "
Yeah, RJ ... I think VixChix was just yanking our masculine chains a little bit with that one ... as I think you see too!
Really, I just don't think too many of us posters on the Excal forum will be naming grizzlies "Snuggles" and "Wookum-snookum" or "Butterball" and trying to "connect" with them.
I remember well that the first time I saw a TV spot about that guy, I told my wife, "Well, they'll be extracting bits of him from bear scat one day."
A grim prophecy ... too soon fulfilled. But I do think he asked for it.
"I agree .... I was cool about it ... right up till someone compared some of us to Timothy Treadwell !
Bite your tounge ! .... that was a low blow !! " Yeah, RJ ... I think VixChix was just yanking our masculine chains a little bit with that one ... as I think you see too!
Really, I just don't think too many of us posters on the Excal forum will be naming grizzlies "Snuggles" and "Wookum-snookum" or "Butterball" and trying to "connect" with them.
I remember well that the first time I saw a TV spot about that guy, I told my wife, "Well, they'll be extracting bits of him from bear scat one day."
A grim prophecy ... too soon fulfilled. But I do think he asked for it.
Grizz
TPM wrote :
In my opinion a hunter that does not understand or review the risks of hunting dangerous game , is arrogant and is setting himself up to waste a valuable resource , period ! ... it shows a complete lack of respect for such a majestic animal ....
Lets face it ... we venture into their territory ! .
One of my hunting partners , CH spent an entire week this year hunting black bear with his crossbow .... he had a small 100 +lb bear under his stand and on his bait every day .... it would even sleep there for hours .... CH got lots of video footage but chose not to take the bear ... his set up was good , he was confident that he had successfully completed his hunt since his target game was lured in close eneough for a clean kill and got great video footage of it ... he had nothing to prove , and he was hoping for a larger bear .
On the last day , CH went to leave his stand and the bear was reluctant to move away ... CH made the extra effort to persuade the bear to leave ... the bear was definately showing no fear of him and he only had a crossbow ... he had somemoments when he wasn't sure how it was going to turn out , and I'm sure others might have shot and said " I felt threatend " ! .... I believe CH made the right choice !
And before anybody jumps in and says " big diffence betwen a grizzly and a 100 lb balck bear " .... a threat is a threat ... ask any experienced black bear hunter what damage a 100 lb bear can do !
Same as in this footage .... and the bear came back twice !!
http://www.huntingfootage.com/showphoto ... 52&cat=511
I'm guessing from what I have read so far in this thread ... this bear would have been dead if it had been another hunter in this guys place !
TPM wrote :
Thanks ... I'd probably end up looking like that dude that AW posted pictures of ... But I'd feel better getting out of it that way , then wetting my pants and shooting too early !
It is good that we all don't feel the same .... because if everybody thought like that when they went into Grizzly Bear territory or any bear territory for thast matter , there would be alot less bear around !"Usually" and "probably" don't cut it with me. If a bear was charging me it's going down. No judgement call to make .
In my opinion a hunter that does not understand or review the risks of hunting dangerous game , is arrogant and is setting himself up to waste a valuable resource , period ! ... it shows a complete lack of respect for such a majestic animal ....
Lets face it ... we venture into their territory ! .
One of my hunting partners , CH spent an entire week this year hunting black bear with his crossbow .... he had a small 100 +lb bear under his stand and on his bait every day .... it would even sleep there for hours .... CH got lots of video footage but chose not to take the bear ... his set up was good , he was confident that he had successfully completed his hunt since his target game was lured in close eneough for a clean kill and got great video footage of it ... he had nothing to prove , and he was hoping for a larger bear .
On the last day , CH went to leave his stand and the bear was reluctant to move away ... CH made the extra effort to persuade the bear to leave ... the bear was definately showing no fear of him and he only had a crossbow ... he had somemoments when he wasn't sure how it was going to turn out , and I'm sure others might have shot and said " I felt threatend " ! .... I believe CH made the right choice !
And before anybody jumps in and says " big diffence betwen a grizzly and a 100 lb balck bear " .... a threat is a threat ... ask any experienced black bear hunter what damage a 100 lb bear can do !
Same as in this footage .... and the bear came back twice !!
http://www.huntingfootage.com/showphoto ... 52&cat=511
I'm guessing from what I have read so far in this thread ... this bear would have been dead if it had been another hunter in this guys place !
TPM wrote :
R.J., I really hope you never have to test your theory either... I'd miss your pictures.
Thanks ... I'd probably end up looking like that dude that AW posted pictures of ... But I'd feel better getting out of it that way , then wetting my pants and shooting too early !See Ya. ... R.J. > " Remember , Trophies are measured by the time and energy expended to get them , not the size or quantity of the quarry "
I'm not for casually taking the life of any animal. Most of us as hunters living in today's world with all we have we could just as easily buy meat and never kill again.
So R.J., as a guide you would avoid killing a charging grizzly at 10 yds because it MIGHT only be a bluff? (Remember that you are also responsible for the safety of the paying customer/hunter and the camera man.) If so then take the next logical step - avoid killing anything at all.
Did you kill you deer this year R.J. because you're starving? I doubt it. You took a life of a fine animal... and it wasn't even charging you. How can you justify killing the deer you didn't "need" on one hand and yet judge the guide's decision to shoot the charging grizzly? What's the difference?
In the video the guide seems greatly troubled by the fact that he was in the situation where is needed to take action. The live bears are his livelyhood - I'm sure he hated to have to kill the sow.
P.S. I meant no offence with the T. Treadwell comment - things just came across a little PETAish for a moment there. And I certainly don't mean any of this to be taken personally, I'm just challenging the thought process/logic behind judging the guide.
So R.J., as a guide you would avoid killing a charging grizzly at 10 yds because it MIGHT only be a bluff? (Remember that you are also responsible for the safety of the paying customer/hunter and the camera man.) If so then take the next logical step - avoid killing anything at all.
Did you kill you deer this year R.J. because you're starving? I doubt it. You took a life of a fine animal... and it wasn't even charging you.
How can you justify killing the deer you didn't "need" on one hand and yet judge the guide's decision to shoot the charging grizzly? What's the difference? In the video the guide seems greatly troubled by the fact that he was in the situation where is needed to take action. The live bears are his livelyhood - I'm sure he hated to have to kill the sow.
P.S. I meant no offence with the T. Treadwell comment - things just came across a little PETAish for a moment there. And I certainly don't mean any of this to be taken personally, I'm just challenging the thought process/logic behind judging the guide.