Crossbows in Minnesota

[DJH]

State Representative Cy Thao has introduced a bill that will remove the restrictions against the crossbow and make it eligable to be used by anyone during the archery season. I emailed him and he asked me to share the email with the entire committee. I did and here is what ensued.

----- Original Message -----
From: DJH
To: rep.jean.wagenius@house.mn ; rep.dean.simpson@house.mn ; rep.aaron.peterson@house.mn ; rep.terry.morrow@house.mn ; rep.frank.moe@house.mn ; rep.denny.mcnamara@house.mn ; rep.joe.hoppe@house.mn ; rep.rick.hansen@house.mn ; rep.tom.hackbarth@house.mn ; rep.karla.bigham@house.mn ; MN Rep. Tony Cornish ; rep.kate.knuth@house.mn
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 10:21 AM
Subject: MN House Bill HF 1241
Dear Game, Fish and Forestry Division Committee Members,

What wonderful news about the proposal to allow crossbows during the archery season. Minnesota needs this ,legislation not only to assist in the recruitment of new bowhunters, but also to aid in the retention of older hunters. I am a member of the Minnesota Association of Crossbow Hunters (MACH) and we have over 225 members who support this legislation. There are far more hunters in Minnesota that support the addition of the crossbow than oppose it. If there is anything that I can do to assist in this legislative action please feel free to contact me at your convenience. Our membership will be happy to send representatives to testify and support your efforts in this action. Again thank you for doing what is right for our state bowhunters.

Daniel James Hendricks
POB 251, 20 NE 9th Ave
Glenwood, MN 56334
320-634-3660
Email: bowtwang@charter.net
Web Site: www.horizontalbowhunter.com

I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America
and to the Republic for which it stands
ONE NATION, UNDER GOD
indivisible with liberty
and justice FOR ALL.
* * * * *


----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Cornish
To: bowtwang@charter.net ; Aaron Peterson ; Dean Simpson ; Denny McNamara ; Frank Moe ; Jean Wagenius ; Joe Hoppe ; Karla Bigham ; Kate Knuth ; Rick Hansen ; Terry Morrow ; Tom Hackbarth
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 11:19 AM
Subject: State Rep Tony Cornish

Dear Members,

You have received bogus information from the member of the Crossbow Hunters Assoc. There are not more members in support of this legislation than oppose it. As a Conservation Officer for 22 years I can tell you there is a reason that crossbows aren't allowed in Minnesota except by disabled people with permits. They are an efficient poaching weapon. The mainstream archery clubs have long opposed this. Crossbow manufacturers once came to Camp Ripley Minnesota and tried to
sell Conservation Officers on this idea of crossbows being allowed in regular season. It did not work. This is naturally a great deal for someone who wants to take an easy deer or someone who doesn't want to have to pull a bow back when the deer approches and a great deal for manufacturers.

Recruiting more archery hunters is not necessarily a good thing. This is a "cross gun" not archery. It has a tendancy to fill the woods with Sunday hunters that don't want to go thru the rigor of getting a deer the old way.

Please oppose this legislation.

Tony


DJH Response

Dear Mr. Cornish - It would seem that it is you that is misinformed. I wrote that there are more MN hunters, not members, that are in favor of the crossbow. With less than 500 members in the State Bowhunting Organization and 80,000 bowhunters in the state, all that can be said for this organization is that it represents less than 1% of the Minnesota bowhunters. Two years ago there was a questionnaire put forth to the members at the annual banquet and a large number of those asked supported the use of the crossbow in the general season. My statement is based on personal contact with the hunting public, petitions signed by those hunters that desire to use a crossbow and by the contacts that are made with the Minnesota Association of Crossbow Hunters.

As a hunter of 46 years and a bowhunter of 34 years I am aware that in the states (Ohio, Arkansas, Wyoming) where crossbows have been a legal option for the deer hunter for decades, based on actual poaching violations the crossbow has less violations that any other weapon used in this vile crime. The claim that the crossbow is a poachers weapon is an invalid argument that has been used by the uninformed to discredit the crossbow and cloud the good that it has done for game management agencies and hunting in general where it has been legal for decades. As a conservation officer of twenty-two years, I would think that you would be more aware of the facts and less likely to spread incorrect information when there are documented statistics to prove the falsehood of the "poacher's weapon" claim. Please see attached document prepared by C. J. Winand, Big Game Biologist for the State of Maryland and Biologist Columnist for Bowhunter Magazine.

Respectfully,
Daniel James Hendricks


----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Cornish
To: bowtwang@charter.net ; Aaron Peterson ; Dean Simpson ; Denny McNamara ; Frank Moe ; Jean Wagenius ; Joe Hoppe ; Karla Bigham ; Kate Knuth ; Rick Hansen ; Terry Morrow ; Tom Hackbarth
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 2:03 PM
Subject: State Rep Tony Cornish

Surveys from other states and magazines that carry heavy paid ads by manufacturers aren't very convincing. I've taken deer and bear for many years with the bow and talked to many hunters. I disagree. Thanks, Tony


From: DJH
To: Tony Cornish ; Aaron Peterson ; Dean Simpson ; Denny McNamara ; Frank Moe ; Jean Wagenius ; Joe Hoppe ; Karla Bigham ; Kate Knuth ; Rick Hansen ; Terry Morrow ; Tom Hackbarth
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 3:01 PM
Subject: RE: State Rep Tony Cornish

I am not writing about surveys or magazines with heavily paid ads, Tony, I am talking about documented statistics from the Wildlife Management Agencies of those states which disprove the statements that have been used to slander the crossbow for years. When considering a question that is so important, it is paramount that the decision makers look at facts and not emotional conjecture.
You stated in your first message that "Recruiting more archery hunters is not necessarily a good thing". That comes closer to the underlying truth in the anti-crossbow camp.
"If we legalize the crossbow, there will be more hunters in OUR woods, during OUR season, killing OUR deer.

In the past decade we have lost 1.7 million hunters nation wide and organizations like PETA and the Humane Society of the United States work to eliminate all forms of hunting. It is a very sad state of affairs when such a small, vocal segment of our own kind works so hard spreading misinformation to keep the woods for themselves. Most of our MACH membership is older and has been hunting for decades forgetting more about bowhunting than the younger hunters know. To besmirch them by calling them "Sunday Hunters" and there weapon of choice a "crossgun" is disappointing to see. They deserve better.

Daniel James Hendricks

[sumner4991]

Why would anyone want to poach a deer with a crossbow? Sure, it doesn't make much sound, neither does a compound bow and I've never known it to pose such a problem. Personally, I would use a rifle. Why? Because I drop deer in their tracks with a rifle. Probably use a .223 . . .if I decided to poach a deer. I would want a longer range . . .can't drive close enough to a deer with a spotlight to shoot it with a crossbow(at least it's harder). Who would want to poach with a crossbow and track a deer a hundred yards. I would use a rifle, drop the deer quickly and be gone. No one pays much attention to a rifle being shot out in the wilderness anyway. The crossbow being a great poaching weapon . . .not for me.

[VixChix]

One morning during moose season a few years ago I met a "fellow hunter" in the woods trespassing on private property (and he had the nerve to inform me that I was trespassing on my own property! LOL) He was carrying a rifle AND a crossbow. He said he carried the rifle for moose and the crossbow for deer. I strongly suspect he would have used a rifle for deer and then stuck a bolt in the wound. I didn't push the issue as I was alone in the woods with a guy who thought it was OK to break rules. Everyone that hunts our property knows about him now and won't let him off so easy the next time he trespasses.

[sumner4991]

VixChix . . .I would have to give that gentleman the benefit of a doubt, after all, he is a crossbow owner. I met a couple of guys on the family farm once and they quickly questioned my presence on their land. I guess that's in the outlaw code of conduct or somethig. After talking with them a little, they confessed to spotting a monster buck from the road and was attempting to track it down . . .I told them my buddy and cousins where hunting and gave them permission to continue their search. Just warned them strongly not to go near my younger cousin cause he was a "sound shooter" and last I saw him, he was on the ridge up ahead. . .they decided to head back to their truck.

[Kansas]

The sky is falling in the MN bowsite forum.

[VixChix]

Sumner4991 - there was more to that story but I didn't want to drag out the post LOL In the morning when we first met, he was sitting on a watch on Crown Land facing onto our property. Then he told me how he knew the area like the back of his hand and about the neighbouring property whose owners were anti's and didn't like trespassers - and that he would never, ever trespass. At that meeting I did give him the benefit of the doubt. Then in the late afternoon he walked past my stand as he was coming from the neighbouring property - he said he'd gotten all turned around in Crown Land (those woods that he said he knew like the back of his hand). He also had tried to conceal his gun the first time I saw him (he was sitting) - but the second time our paths crossed he couldn't conceal it and was pretty fidgety about it. I have to double check, but I believe it's not legal to be carrying both at the same time. I didn't make an issue of it as it seemed from his behaviour he knew I didn't buy his story.

I personally suspect he'd sucumb to the temption to shoot deer with the gun and use the bow to make it look like it was in season. With moose being open no one would question the sound of gun shots. So, the best of both worlds?

Back to the original topic of this thread, I don't believe that crossbows would make poaching more likely. I believe that those who want to poach will do it by the quickest, easiest way possible - just as you said in your post. To suggest otherwise seems a bit ridiculous...

[Woody Williams]

No poacher is going to use any kind of archery hutning device to poach with.

They want the animal to drop in it's tracks so they can throw it in theird truck and take off pronto.

The CO lied..

I read a report in Ohio that there were more law breaking incidents with compound than crossbows.

The CO lied..

[sumner4991]

VixChix . . .you are probably right, just seems like carrying a crossbow would be stupid. I would just carry the bolt/arrow. However . . .there's no way to cover up the exit hole of a large cal. rifle with a broadhead. But, that kid is probably stupid. Even a bad Game Warden would figure that out. I've considered taking my crossbow along during gun season . . .figured if I get a close shot, I would take it with the crossbow. It's leagal in VA. to carry both durning gun season, however, not legal to carry both during archery season.

Poaching requires a quick in, quick out strategy. Besides, if a gun fires in the woods and no one is there to hear it, was it a crossbow?

[LV2HNT]

I sort of knew a guy (friend of a friend) years ago who was into poaching along with his buddies. He in particular poached a lot of park lands where a gun shot woud bring in the wardens and rangers in a heart beat which would result in a felony charge among other things, so he used his compound a lot. One time in particular he went to a National Park where the deer were extremely tame and used to being fed by all of the campers around. He had his buddy drop him off on the side of the road near the campground one night and then he went into the woods with a bag of chips. He started crinkeling the bag and waited for the deer. The one buck he wanted showed up and he shot it. He got the deer out and registered it into a bunch of big buck contests in the area and won them all. He used a compound because he needed it to be quiet. He may have used a crossbow if he had one but I don't think he realy cared either way because they both sound and shoot the same. Whenever the guy went to park land where there was private land near by he would use a gun because he new that he would probably get away with it and it was easier. I think the people who are prejudiced towards crossbows are the same idiots who believe crossbows are the same thing as rifles. That guy was a law breaking P.O.S. so I have no doubt that if he wanted the buck he would have found a way to get it. If there were no crossbows (which he doesn't use anyway) he would use a compound. If there were no compounds he would use a longbow or recurve and if there wern't any bows at all, he would use a spear or some kind of poison. This is another case of stupid misinformed lawmakers making poor decisions just like they do with gun laws. They think that taking away guns or not allowing crossbows will fix the problem instead of realizing that the problem will still be there but carried out in a different method. They prefer to blame the weapon used instead of the person doing it meaning they will take away all of the honest peoples weapons while leaving the dishonest people out there to continue using there weapons or to find new ways to break the law. Untill they can find a way to take away the thrill some people get from breaking the law there efforts will be worthless and us honest people will pay the most.

[sumner4991]

LV2HNT . . wow . . .I certainly agree with your conclusion. I swear, some of the schemes I've seen people pull in order to avoid doing something the correct/legal way is amazing. You got to admit, doing what that guy did took some planning and a lot of nerve. He probably just took the head/shoulders and left. I've seen some schemes that took far more effort than doing it right/legal. That's where the thrill of getting by with something is too strong in a person. No amount of punishment will cure a person of that. You are so right, it's the person and not the weapon.

Since I only hunt private land, I never thought of the public land attraction of shooting something quite. Also, where I hunt, people are shooting their rifles at all hours. Hearing a gun shot is as common as hearing a car horn on I-285.

[Grizzly Adam]

Why can't we all get along? The devil must be in the details!

I'm sure he's doing his part.