I Walk the Line

Mike P · Post by **Mike P** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:17 pm

I read with interest the thread regarding Bill T and his recent elephant hunt. And I was alarmed when I read some negative comments pertaining to this hunt. I thought I would post my thoughts and invite you to post yours.

This is always a tough subject to deal with. My hunting buddy Shrader killed an elephant two years ago. He goes to Africa every year and kills all kinds of game, from plains animals to major predators. My other hunting partner Doc is going to Alaska next year to hunt bears.

I have killed whitetails, wild hogs and coyotes and take great pleasure in doing so. I have killed every species of duck indigenous to North America. I have killed ducks in Argentina till the gun barrel was too hot to touch. I have killed bobcats and ring-tailed cats in Mexico. And, like many of you, I have drawn a mental line that I just won’t cross. There are some animals I will not kill.

I just can’t kill larger predators. I have had numerous opportunities to go bear hunting and lion hunting. I declined. Shrader begs me every year to go with him to Africa and hunt. I decline. I just can’t cross over that mental line.

But it is my line! It’s not Shrader’s line. It’s not Doc’s line. And it certainly is not Bill T’s line. Every man has his own line.

I am sure that justifications can be made for killing just about any animal that walks our planet. I am not about to degrade Shrader for killing an Elephant. I know the guy has killed more humans then he will ever tell me. It was his job in South East Asia and he was doing this killing because his government told him to. His government dictated to him what line he had to cross.

Most of us are more fortunate. We get to determine our lines. The problem arises when we try and impose our lines on others. Just because we as hunters decide we will not kill a certain animal or a certain species of animal we must never impose those same restrictions on others. We do not have the right. It’s not our line.

We fail as hunters when we demean any hunter for killing an animal that is on the other side of our line. When we do this we give fodder to the anti’s who want to impose their line on all of us. So I say a hearty “well done” to Shrader, Doc, Bill T and every one of you who take animals that are beyond my line.

We all have our lines to walk. Thank God we are not all on the same one.

navaman · Post by **navaman** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:40 pm

very well said. or in this case , written. i agree entirely !

kitty kat · Post by **kitty kat** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:37 pm

I think every one has their own line. I would think if you could get a legal permit for any animal it would be alright.Someone will be able to harvest that animal and by you doing it at least it would be done with the skill and compassion of any hunt. I don't think that the tags would be allotted if there were not enough animals to be harvested. Just my thoughts, I have been wrong before.

Moxie · Post by **Moxie** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:49 pm

Very well stated and I fully agree.

Makomachine · Post by **Makomachine** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:57 pm

While I spoke up in the other post, I agree with yours. My personal limitations should not impact what others should legally do. Good post.

Golden Eagle · Post by **Golden Eagle** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 8:28 pm

Very good post and right on. I have a line also and dont kill some animals that others have no problem taking. To each his own.

sumner4991 · Post by **sumner4991** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:01 pm

It's simply not my job to judge, the good Lord will take care of that job.

Who out there enjoys killing chickens? Growing up on my family farm in Virginia, I killed my share of chickens for the family dinner. The traditional way was to catch the chicken by the feet/legs, lay it's head across a chopping block and take a small handle axe to cut it's head off. I would immediately let go of the chicken and let it run in circles while it bleed to death. I had one to run in a straight line for 25 yards before falling over once . . .that was amazing. Humane? Yes . . .as long as you're not the chicken.

My point is . . .if an animal is taken in an planned effort to supply food for the hungry and it's taken humanely with a quick kill, then that's OK with me. However . . .no matter how an animal is taken, if I were that animal . . .well, I think you get my point.

There will always be people that put themselves in that animals place and not like that treatment it got, at the same time those people will be eating a chicken sandwich.

EDIT**
Mike . . .I enjoyed the read on "Walk the Line". However, in reality, we do draw that line. We the people decide what's legal and/or humane. If someone is walking outside the group's line, then it is the responsibility of the group to bring that outlaw back inside the line. In this case, we the people do not believe Bill T. was outside that line. I also draw my line at using the animal for food and clothing. There should be an all out effort to use the resource, not waste it.

wabi · Post by **wabi** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:49 pm

In the case of the elephant, I see no reason to question Bill T's ethics. It was killed legally, and from the duration of the hunt I'm betting it was ethical (rules of fair chase), and the meat was used by locals, so there is sure no complaints from me on that issue. I think Bill T was helping the cause for crossbow hunting rights with the kill, too. He proved the crossbow is capable of taking the largest of game, and added support to the argument it can be an ethical hunting tool.
I guess my "line" is drawn at making use of the animals I hunt. If I don't need it for food, clothing and accessories (or someone else needs it for the same reasons - I would have no problem with shooting a mess of squirrels for the landowner where I hunt, or trapping beaver, raccoon, or mink to sell the pelts to be used for clothing) - I let it live.

BigTiny · Post by **BigTiny** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:59 pm

I don't really have a line, but for those who do, great. Hunting should be something that you enjoy. I wouldn't want anyone to take an animal and regret it later. We as humans are very fond of our lines. George Carlin said once that when we drive, everyone going faster than we are is a maniac and everyone going slower is an idiot. Truth.

Grizzly Adam · Post by **Grizzly Adam** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:30 am

I look at it this way:

If it's legal to hunt an animal in the jurisdiction in question, then I grant that a hunter has the right to do so. I believe that is a personal choice.

However, people do make poor choices, and even wrong ones. Because both men and governments exercise flawed judgment and exhibit wrong motives, each individual must satisfy himself that the legality and opportunity to hunt a given species is morally justifiable.

Our dominion over the earth is stewardship, not an excuse for exploitation.

Like every man, I walk my own line.

For that matter, I keep a close watch on this heart of mine.

Our lines say a lot about our hearts, I think.

Bill T. crossed no line of mine in culling an elephant from a crop-raiding herd. I imagine his heart tells him the same.

crazyfarmer · Post by **crazyfarmer** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:22 am

I agree with grizz 100% here.. Granted I have no interest in hunting big game like elephants, lions, and zebras. If its legal there to do so and the hunts are legal, then its fine by me. The only time I have any issues with hunters and hunting is for those and break the rules. Those that poach and etc. I missed the post about this but im guessing someone didnt like Bill or someone killing a elephant? If its legal and they wish to do so, then whats the problem at hand? If someone is upset, complain to the people that make the rules and laws for those animals lol.

Its people that think its unfair to shoot deer, but they bear hunt themselves. Its always some that dont like hunting certain animals. I think rabbits are cute LOL.. but they need to be shot also to keep the numbers down LOL

anyway, dont bash the hunters for hunting a legal species

sumner4991 · Post by **sumner4991** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:43 am

I keep a close watch on this heart of mine. I keep my eyes wide open all the time.

What would Johnny Cash think?

Crazy . . .the post was deleted, not sure why someone would drag up a thread from over a year ago other than to start trouble. At least it made for some conversation.

crazyfarmer · Post by **crazyfarmer** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:32 pm

sumner4991 wrote:I keep a close watch on this heart of mine. I keep my eyes wide open all the time.

What would Johnny Cash think?

Crazy . . .the post was deleted, not sure why someone would drag up a thread from over a year ago other than to start trouble. At least it made for some conversation.

my guess is someone was bored LMAO

btw, we did the same to chickens also. I found it amazing that even without a head, they still knew where you were

navaman · Post by **navaman** » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:04 pm

i guess it's like this for me ; this town is full of nasty old feral cats. they're everywhere ! if our city council said we could begin shooting them on site it would be a great thing in my opinion but i wouldn't do it myself. one thing you can count on though is this , i would support and encourage those shooting the little kitties in every way i could if they were trying to take them down humanely and efficiently. but , like i said , i wouldn't be able to.
i for one really enjoyed this topic. i'm already looking for more like it.

John Wade · Post by **John Wade** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:27 pm

navaman wrote:i guess it's like this for me ; this town is full of nasty old feral cats. they're everywhere ! if our city council said we could begin shooting them on site it would be a great thing in my opinion but i wouldn't do it myself. one thing you can count on though is this , i would support and encourage those shooting the little kitties in every way i could if they were trying to take them down humanely and efficiently. but , like i said , i wouldn't be able to.
i for one really enjoyed this topic. i'm already looking for more like it.

I have syndicated newspaper column about animal behaviour. I just sent in a column about cat over population. Here's a bit that might interest you:

Cats like you write about come from one of two groups, feral and stray. Strays are pet cats that have been abandoned or are lost. Feral cats are cats that were born and raised outside. Adult ferals are generally too wild to be socialized and adopted out although their kittens may be tamed if they are less than 8-10 weeks old. Traditionally there have been two warring philosophical camps regarding feline overpopulation. One camp believes in "no-kill." The other camp believes some can be re-socialized and adopted out but believe they end up with the cats that the no-kill camp can't take in, try but can't find them homes and by default end up forced to kill them. Ethical or not, you'd think trapping and killing cats would eventually take care of the problem but it doesn't. All you do is create a vacuum and paraphrasing Henry David Thoreau, "Nature abhors a vacuum." The cats you don't catch, breed, and their young fill the void.

Some cat rescue organizations and municipalities are now embracing an approach not intended to eliminate stray and feral cats which is generally accepted for all practical purposes to be impossible, but to reduce and control the population. They locate colonies of cats, trap them, neuter, vaccinate, provide any necessary medical care, and if they aren't wild, attempt to adopt them, if they're wild they nick their ears and send them back to where they came from with usually volunteers keeping them keeping an eye open for any unmarked cats. By bringing them back the established colony cats defend their territory against unsterilized cats.

Every community has its cabal of "cat ladies" If you've ever met a cat lady you know you don't want to mess with her. Once they get going they're a force of nature. Give them a little money for the neutering and they'll get the leg work done, and they'll swing their collective hand bags to get deals on neutering too. A few years down the road, the cat population will be down to a manageable size and they'll have more time for taking up actives in keeping with their energy levels. Something like triathlons I should think.