New Smoke-Belcher: A Tribute To TC

Grizzly Adam · Post by **Grizzly Adam** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:17 pm

Hey, Ya'll ...

I am a longtime blackpowder enthusiast and shooter (33 years), and have accumulated a number of different blackpowder arms ... flintlocks, caplocks, sidelocks, underhammers, rifles, shotguns ... from the mass-produced to custom handmades. There was one blackpowder arm I didn't have in my collection, though: A good example of the muzzleloader that sparked the modern renaissance of front-stuffing and made muzzleloading hunting what it is today: The Thompson-Center Hawken Rifle.

Yes, I know that they're not an exact copy of any period arm, particularly the work of the Saint Louis Hawken riflemakers, and I know that if anything, they are more representative of a New England sporting rifle of the 1840's era. I don't care. That elitist rhetoric matters not to me. I've always liked them for just what they are: a well-made, rock-solid, reasonably priced and attractive contemporary blackpowder rifle that honors the heritage of our past ... made of top-quality walnut and steel, and priced for the average man.

Thompson Center Hawkens are the F150 of traditional muzzleloaders; they are worthy of a spot in the history of gunmaking, and many an example languishes forgotten in a closet corner because of the recent surge in "inline magnum" popularity. More's the pity.

Many early TC Hawkens exhibited superior wood and fit and finish. Some fine old examples are still out there ... and I recently bought one from Track of the Wolf. It's a .54 caliber of early manufacture, and it is flawless. I'm glad to have found it. I had one when I was a teenager, but sold it to a friend of my brothers, and I've always regretted it. Now I've finally got another for my collection.

I love traditional-style blackpowder arms best ... and my assortment wasn't complete without a representative model of the rifle that brought modern muzzleloading into the limelight: the TC Hawken.

I am very pleased with it. It won't hang on the wall, either. I intend to take it hunting this fall, and kill some deer with it.

For those who'd like a look, check it out at TOC's website. They're known for their great pictures:

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/

Just choose Guns For Sale, then Percussion Rifles, then Page 4 ... it's the last one listed, # AAF-366.

Plan to touch 'er off tomorrow!

wabi · Post by **wabi** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:08 pm

That's a sweet looking chunk of wood on that rifle, too!
Do you plan to use PRBs or conicals in it? The .54 ball should whack a deer with plenty of thump at reasonable ranges.
Let us know how it shoots!

I love to shoot the sidelocks and own a few. I recently picked up a T/C Hawken with a good stock, lock, and trigger, but a questionable barrel. I called Green Mountain Barrels and found they had a 21" Long Range Hunter barrel (.50 cal - 1:28 twist) on sale for $95., so I bought it for the Hawken. Ended up with this:

Had a chance to shoot it off the bench the other day, but mud on the range limited me to 35 yards. With a 300 gr bullet (saboted) I was hitting slightly left, so I adjusted the sight and shot a group with 360 gr bullets (saboted). When I finished there was a small white object (plastic ?) on the 100 yard backstop so I fired a round at it. It disappeard, so I must be close!

Grizzly Adam · Post by **Grizzly Adam** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:18 pm

Cool, Wabi!

Cay you say "treestand rifle?" Perfect!

Buying old Hawkens and Renegades and New Englanders with compromised barrels and replacing them with GM tubes is a way to end up with a really good rifle for a decent price.

I'll shoot more balls than bullets in mine, I'm sure ... probably use Maxi-Balls or Great Plains bullets if I take it out during bear season.

If any snobbish period elitist makes fun of my TC Hawken and asks me what "personna" I'm trying to recreate, I'm going to tell them I'm trying to recreate a 1980's teenager who longed for a quality muzzleloader but couldn't pay $$$$ for some expensive custom!

saxman · Post by **saxman** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:21 pm

Thats a beauty Grizz,and yours too Wabi.
First front stuffer I owned was from a pawn shop in the hawken style,it was spray painted,an ugly thing,The hog I shot at and missed was not impressed with it either but those are fine rifles.
I always wanted to build one from a kit to hang and to hunt.

wabi · Post by **wabi** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:30 pm

I started off with a T/C Seneca back in the 70s. Had a .36 and a .45 barrel for it, but the .45 was so light I couldn't shoot accurately with it.
Had a lot of different ones since, everything from a custom .62 smoothbore flintlock to modern inlines, but I find myself leaning toward sidelock/caplocks for most of my hunting these days. Real BP and home cast bullets (and ball) for the most part.
I have a T/C NewEnglander that has grown into 2 T/C NewEnglanders with parts to spare over the years. Started off with a .50 with a black synthetic stock, bought a 12ga barrel for it, added a camo synthetic stock, then picked up a spare lock, then a walnut stock and today I have a .50 with a black synthetic stock, a 12ga with a camo synthetic stock, and a spare walnut stock if I decide to dress either one of them up.

TPM · Post by **TPM** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:27 pm

Congrats Grizz! That is exactly the same as my T/C hawken, .54 cal, 28" barrel, older style hammer. You're going to love it!

Here's a pic of mine. Note the barrel sight has been replaced with a tang mount apature.

dick195252 · Post by **dick195252** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:34 am

Very nice looking weapons, looks like fun, I have never shot one before

Farmer · Post by **Farmer** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:50 am

I had one that looked just like Wabi's ; ended up selling it because , i lacked the time to use it . Wish I had never sold it now !

saxman · Post by **saxman** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:02 am

wabi wrote:That's a sweet looking chunk of wood on that rifle, too!
Do you plan to use PRBs or conicals in it? The .54 ball should whack a deer with plenty of thump at reasonable ranges.
Let us know how it shoots!

I love to shoot the sidelocks and own a few. I recently picked up a T/C Hawken with a good stock, lock, and trigger, but a questionable barrel. I called Green Mountain Barrels and found they had a 21" Long Range Hunter barrel (.50 cal - 1:28 twist) on sale for $95., so I bought it for the Hawken. Ended up with this:

Had a chance to shoot it off the bench the other day, but mud on the range limited me to 35 yards. With a 300 gr bullet (saboted) I was hitting slightly left, so I adjusted the sight and shot a group with 360 gr bullets (saboted). When I finished there was a small white object (plastic ?) on the 100 yard backstop so I fired a round at it. It disappeard, so I must be close!

Wabi,I noticed yours has a shorter barell with a much faster twist 1 in 28"
While I believe Grizz's has 1 in 70" is that what allows yours to shoot the sabot's? and Grizz,would yours prefer round balls and full bore conicles?

I joined this forum when I got my TC Encore,Lots of good people and great info.

http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/index.php

raydaughety · Post by **raydaughety** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:15 am

I have an Investarms 50 cal Hawkins (made in Italy) rifle that I'm trying to sell. I have way to many guns and am really trying to fund a new long range muzzleloader. I'm asking $100 for it if anyone is interested.

saxman · Post by **saxman** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:44 am

My Bad,the 1in70" was for the flintlocks.I didn't see the twist on Grizz's

Grizzly Adam · Post by **Grizzly Adam** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:40 am

Hey, Boys ...

The study of rifling twist rates in blackpowder arms is a dark art, full of smoke and mirrors and much mystery. One thing you can depend on is that most "common knowledge" paints with a pretty broad brush!

The generality that fast twists are for bullets and slow twists are for balls is just that: generally true. Thing is, though, that everything factors in ... projectile, propellant, and especially caliber.

For instance, 1" in 48" is a round ball "slow twist" in a light caliber, like a .40, while it is a moderate twist in larger calibers.

1" in "70 is indeed a popular large caliber round ball twist, Sax, for flintlocks or percussion. The ignition system makes no difference.

My Hawken is a button-rifled 1" in 48" twist .54 percussion. With proper load development, they will shoot good groups with round balls and better groups with heavy conicals.

saxman · Post by **saxman** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:05 pm

Thanks Grizz.I love my inline T/C but I also love the nostalga of the older guns.Except for my turkey gun and the 20 ga my dad got me when I was 13 my newest gun was made in 1947 the oldest so far in 1928 and I may trade something to a friend for an old double barell 12 ga with rabbit ear hammers made in th 1800's.I love the old guns.

dnepr · Post by **dnepr** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:24 pm

TPM wrote:Congrats Grizz! That is exactly the same as my T/C hawken, .54 cal, 28" barrel, older style hammer. You're going to love it!
Here's a pic of mine. Note the barrel sight has been replaced with a tang mount apature.

WOW I thought I was losing it for a second. that is the exact twin of my TC hawkins right down to the peep sight.
Actually not quite mine doesn't have the sling swivels. but even the wood grain looks very similar

wabi · Post by **wabi** » Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:25 pm

Sax,
The 1:28 barrel is designed to shoot sabots or conicals. I use fffg black powder in the short barrel to get a little quicker powder burn so there is (hopefully) a little better velocity from such a short barrel. I wasn't sure I'd like the balance of the rifle with shuch a short barrel, but it's actually very stable to hold in the offhand position.

The accepted wisdom is fast twist for sabots & conicals - med twist for PRB, sabots, and conicals - slow twist for PRB. That hold true in most cases, but I've seen a few rifles that didn't read the rulebook!