OT - Mrs.John McCain

[sumner4991]

The real problem with our "wars" . . .politicians & the media is in charge or has too much "voice". If you want a true war, then let the Military be in charge of it. Someone like General Douglas MacArthur . . .someone that eliminates the enemy. In a true war, there are no prisoners. Only survivors, which are declared winners.

General MacArthur speaking to the cadets of the U.S. Military Academy in accepting the Sylvanus Thayer Award on 12 May 1962 . . .

"Yours is the profession of arms, the will to win, the sure knowledge that
in war there is no substitute for victory, that if you lose, the Nation will be
destroyed, that the very obsession of your public service must be
Duty, Honor, Country.

Others will debate the controversial issues, national and international,
which divide men's minds. But serene, calm, aloof, you stand as the
Nation's war guardian, as its lifeguard from the raging tides of international
conflict, as its gladiator in the arena of battle.
For a century and a half you have defended, guarded, and protected its
hallowed traditions of liberty and freedom, of right and justice.

Let civilian voices argue the merits or demerits of our processes of government:
Whether our strength is being sapped by deficit financing indulged in too long,
by Federal paternalism grown too mighty, by power groups grown too arrogant,
by politics grown too corrupt, by crime grown too rampant, by morals
grown too low, by taxes grown too high, by extremists grown too violent,
whether our personal liberties are as thorough and complete as they should be.

These great national problems are not for your professional participation
or military solution.
Your guidepost stands out like a ten-fold beacon in the night:
Duty, Honor, Country."



There would be NO such thing as a 100 year war. We should let our military do what it's trained to do. War over.

[dick195252]

Thank You LV2HUNT I love this country But i am so Disappointed lately at the way we come across as some Super Macho Better than every one, You will do as we say or Else attitude. All the while we can not even get our HOUSE in order, Perverted Lieing, Cheating, Politicians! Reformed Alcoholic President Big Gas company Rip offs,Arrogant Vice president that on National TV says he does not care what the BIG Majority of the American People Think Run Away inflation, Record number of Foreclosures, 47 Million WITH OUT Health care, Most of the WORLD Hates us!!! Used the money From The Social Security Account For GOD knows what and then tell us its in Trouble of meeting its obligations [Mandatory Deduction not by CHOICE if i had invested that money all my life that they have taken i could have retired at 45 not 55 There are so many i can not even list them. If i recall right the Master mind of [911] was Osama Bin Laden we Can't even catch Him after spending 600 or 700 BILLION Dollars so Far on WARS [Bin Ladens Mission is to Bankrupt America and we are falling right in his TRAP] And like i said in an earlier post, I AGREE all 3 of these Knuckle Heads running for President are RIDICULOUS and not the Leader ship we need right now!!!! The American People better understand soon that we have got to pay off this National Debt 10 Trillion Dollars soon and Quit Ignoring it!!! [Since Bush went in office it has allmost Doubled ] Enough said I am Done

[sumner4991]

dick . . .you are right. However, the melting pot ideal of America has attracted such a wide diverse group of people that we do not have a common goal. We Americans can't agree on any course of solid action. Regardless of the cause. The melting pot wants to cater to the minority. The minority gets money for all types of crap including things like several $300,000 toilets in downtown Atlanta.

It seems to be the norm to blame the President for such crap. When in fact, one man can not make the difference. If so, we would have a dictatorship. Which is probably what we need to clean up this mess.

Anyway, the problem starts at the local level and gets worse as you get to the top. The President is always the fall guy.

[LV2HNT]

We are a nation that has been divided. If we don't ban together, debate the issues, no matter how hard and maddening they may be, and come up with a common voice, loud enough for the polititions to hear, we will be conquered.

It wont be Osama that does it either. It will be our own people. Osama allready won, even though I don't believe he attacked us on 9/11 in the first place. Either way, we have lost a lot of our rights and our freedoms, we have caused financail chaos across the nation, and we have made new enemies all over the world. I don't think Osama could have planned it any better. He has turned us into a bunch of paranoid, trembling, babies who's government is viewed by the rest of the world (including quite a few of it's own people) as a bunch of power hungry, blood, money, and oil thirsty criminals.

We used to be the land of the free, home of the brave. Now we are the land of the enslaved wussies, too afraid or too lazy to do whats right. Too busy or too detached to notice and care.

[sumner4991]

LV2HNT . . you don't think he was responsible for 9/11? He had over $300,000,000 . . . he said he was going to do it, he said he did it. If I had that kind of money, I'm sure I could put a couple of planes where I wanted them. The basic facts of the attack point toward him. No logical reason not to believe that, is there?

We are just too diverse to be united and too busy with our own lives to care. The attitude is simply . . .if it doesn't effect me right now, then it doesn't matter.

[Grizzly Adam]

Hit the send button early!

[LV2HNT]

Sumner, I agree completely with what you said about the attitude of the public. I can't agree that Osama was the master mind behind 9/11 though. I have been researching the subject for many months now and all I know for sure is that I don't know who was responsible. If there were a set of facts out there that confirmed who did it we would not need to debate this. There are little to no facts unfortunately, but there are mountains of circumstantial evidence. I have used that, my own common sence, and intuition, after researching arguments from both sides and the governments actions and reactions, to make my decision. I would love to share my findings sometime but I don't have the time or energy to do that right now.

I will however respond to the things you just mentioned. He had all of that money because of what the CIA had given him when we funded and trained him to take on the Russians. Plus his family and the Bush family have had close ties that go back for decades which is where most of his money probably realy came from. It is funny that directly after 9/11 we grounded all air traffic in the country except for the planes that we loaded his family members on, to get them out to safety.

You will have to show me the proof that said he said he would do it and that he did it because I havn't found that yet. I am pretty sure he had made threats of attacks against us before, but I never heard of a specific threat that he made concerning 9/11. Most convincing to me is that after 9/11 he made and released a video where he personaly said he had nothing to do with the attack but he praised whoever did it. I find it hard to believe that he would not claim the fame of the attacks if he actualy was responsible.

This is where our biggest problem lies. You refer to basic facts that logicaly prove he did it, but for every fact you produce I can show you a fact to disprove it. Why? because they are not realy facts at all, and we simply don't know enough to be able to tell what realy is fact and what is not. This is what I have found during all my research. I have kept mental notes of the facts and arguments though and I can honestly say that their is an overwhelming amount of evidence that points to our govrnment as the true culprit.

[sumner4991]

LV2HNT . . .Problem is . . .I don't know if the facts are facts . . .not positive Osama is a real person . . .and you are right . . .nothing I've seen proves anything. Again, we have people trained to handle those events, we really have to trust them until they are, beyond a doubt, proven wrong. Otherwise, we continue down the road of everyone being right and at the same time, they are all wrong.

If we could just get people involved and at least VOTE . . . I would feel a little better.

Scott

[Pink Panther]

Hello my american hunting friends , i know where you are at about dead beat polititions . Up here in canada we have too!~ Lets all play nice here on the forum . THe place to put your point accross is when these bone heads show up in your state or province tell them what whats on your !

[DuckHunt]

I can honestly say that their is an overwhelming amount of evidence that points to our govrnment as the true culprit.

Though I disagree with a vast majority of your opinion, I'm open-minded enough to recognize that everyone is entitled to one [an opinion].

I do take exception to the last sentence though. Regarding the attacks on 9/11/01 that statement cannot be said honestly in any sense of the imagination.

I have to agree with you though on the three candidates. I'm saddened that this is what Washington puts in front of America as the best persons capable of running this fine country. I believe there are hundreds if not thousands of more capable persons none of which have any political ties to Washington DC.

When our founding fathers created this country I don't think career politicians were what they had in mind for our leadership.

DuckHunt

[sumner4991]

I agree, there are a LOT of more qualified people out there. Unfortunately, they are heading corporation that pay several millions of dollars per year, plus stock options. The position of President of the US just doesn't pay that kind of money. It's hard to compete at the money level. I certainly do not think we should pay more . . .I do believe these CEOs are WAY OVER paid.

[Toast]

Two Thumbs up for John McCain.

Not only should he be President he is the only candidate that deserves to be President!

[LV2HNT]

Sumner, I totaly agree. We need to get people to educate themselves and get out there and vote. Too many people complain about the way things are and leave it at that. They think if it gets bad enough that something will be done, without realizing that it should never get that bad because people like them (all of us) have a responsibility to allways act legaly in our countries best interest and to encourage or demand our polititions to do so as well, just like Pink Panther said.

I think the biggest problem with voting is that a lot of people don't believe that it works. I am no expert but the whole electoral college or super delegate issue comes into play here because everyones vote doesn't have the same weight, which is not fair at all. Personaly, I would like to see voters be given a test before they vote where they have to correctly answer a certain percentage of questions about all the candidates and thier platforms for their vote to count. I realize it won't happen but it would be nice. I have also seen some very scary and somewhat convincing accusations that the past one or two elections have been rigged which seems to be much more possible now that we have electronic polls in place, so I would like to see us go back to using paper balots.

I also agree with you that we need to trust the people who's job it is to investigate and handle these events. They are profesionals who are hopefully much more educated than myself and who also have more time and recources than I. Faith that these people will do their jobs correctly is what keeps me going. It becomes hard though when they don't do anything about the obvious and provable criminal acts that have occured so far. Like the act of starting an ilegal war and fighting it with ilegal methods, and directly violating things like the U.N. treaties that we signed and agreed to follow, the geneva convevtions, etc. There is obvious and provable corruption at the very top of our political system and the fact that nothing has been done about it realy disturbs me. Even more disturbing is that coruption can be seen throughout the entire system and nothing seems to be getting done to correct it and to hold those responsible accountable.

Duckhunt, Thats great! Thats why I love this country so much, we are free to think whatever it is we want. I don't expect everyone to agree with, or trust what I say. If they did I would be scared because I don't even know if what I say is right. I do hope that I may somehow encourage people to think and act for themselves though and hopefully use some of that freedom they have taken for granted.

The satement I made that you disagree with is the conclusion I have come up with so far. I may be completely wrong but I feel I have found much more incriminating and circumstantial evidence against the gov. than for them. I may change my mind as time goes by and I learn more. I don't know, but I am honestly telling you guys what I think. I am open to anyone telling me what they think and showing me what brought them to think or believe what they do. As i said before I am no expert. I'm just an average guy trying to make sence of what is going on around me with the limited recources I have. I would apreciate any help or input any one has to offer. I hope someone can prove me dead wrong and they do it soon because it makes me feel sick to see and think of some of the stuff that is out there. It does make me feel good to get this stuff off my chest though.

Thanks Excal family, you are living up to your reputation once again. We should be able to discuss anything with out fear of insult, intimidation, or personal attack. This thread is a fine example of that.

[sumner4991]

Right again LV2HNT . . .except the illegal methods of fighting a illegal war . . .we didn't start this "war". Someone or some group illegally took two of our airplanes and destroyed two of our major buildings instantly killing too numerous to mention American lives. That deserves to be punished, big time. If we do nothing, then we have allowed a terrible act to go unpunished. This is where we need to follow the advice of the people we have trained to handle the punishment, our military. I know we have signed treaties . . .I didn't sign the treaty and I don't believe in illegal methods to fight folks like these. We should use every available means to punish these people and all that support/train them. Problem is we are holding back, makes us look weak. It's time to unleah the hounds, so to speak.

Think of it as someone or some group taking your gas from your shed and burning up your house while your wife and kids slept . . .how would you handle the punishment? Would you consider some methods illegal? Basically, that's what happened on a larger scale.

I love the idea of having to pass an exam before being allowed to vote. Afterall, if you aren't smart enough to pass the test, then how would you be smart enough to know what's good for your country? I'd like an exam that too hard for me to pass . . .of course, that might not be too hard.

Looks like this thread got hijacked. Sorry . . .

[ComfyBear]

Like I said I'd rather fight them there than here. How about you?

America's enemy isn't over there, but in your own backyard. Deceit and lies are running rampant. Your politicians, with their hidden agendas, are pulling the wool over the eyes of those they're supposed to represent. Terrorism is an illusion created by your government to further that agenda. It's despicable that, as a means to justify fighting so called terrorism, they would sacrifice over 3,000 of their own citizens, and destroy the WTC. It does prove that they'll stop at nothing to achieve their ultimate goal of trying to control the world, while using the sons and daughters of their citizens as sacrificial lambs.

LV2HNT . . you don't think he was responsible for 9/11? He had over $300,000,000 . . . he said he was going to do it, he said he did it. If I had that kind of money, I'm sure I could put a couple of planes where I wanted them. The basic facts of the attack point toward him. No logical reason not to believe that, is there?

If one knows where to look, Zeitgeist The Movie, there is ample proof that 9/11 wasn't the doing of Bin Laden, but rather that of the US government. The Twins Towers were brought down by a controlled demolition. When it comes to hoaxes and mass cover-ups the American government is second to none. Too bad those in power don't care about the American people as a whole, and only wish to further their own greedy agenda. As a result, America and its citizens will be destroyed from within, just like the Roman Empire succumbed from internal corruption.

Just thought i would end with All 3 of these Idiots Running for President are Pitifull and makes me Sad that this is the best we can come up with to LEAD our Country

What a choice! That the USA has to pick from those three is indeed pathetic. Given that choice, one would be better off with either Curly, Larry or Moe.