Your Voice

[Woody Williams]

Point out the similarities of vertical bowHUNTING and crossbow HUNTING.

The ONLY difference is the execution of the shot. Everything else is identical.... so crossbowing is still bowHUNTING.

[opossum]

How about a story on how to get kids started shooting and hunting with crossbows.I let my 9 year old son hunt with mine this past deer season.We had a great time.

[FredBear]

I can't stop thinking of that sleazy bar! I've been there before

[one shot scott]

T. Noir, I edited my previous post so that I do not offend you, even though you did not mention my post. I agree, such things should not be acceptable, how ever your veiws are a minority in a vastly secular world. Christians need to voice their concerns, but I think you are a little too sensitive on that missionary post. And before you criticize me, I do consider myself a God-fearing man, despite my actions/words at times.
Christians should have sense of humour too afterall. Remember, you cant always control other peoples words or actions, ya gotta live by example.

[taureau noir]

I admit that a sense of humour has it place, Sorry if I offended
somebody.
It's just that it start with a pebble in the lake and most of the time it finish with a rock.
Taureau noir

[Kenton]

Point out the similarities of vertical bowHUNTING and crossbow HUNTING.

The ONLY difference is the execution of the shot. Everything else is identical.... so crossbowing is still bowHUNTING.

Sorry Woody, but that isn't the only difference. It should be but isn't. Some of you may know that I shoot a vertical bow and have never shot a crossbow. I don't have anything against crossbows if thats what you want to use. The problem I have is that some, NOT ALL, but some use crossbows strictly because they are easier. They simply want to pick up a weapon and shoot something. I believe that part of being a competent and ethical hunter is putting in the time to become a good shooter. I have the same feelings about rifles and in my area, shotguns. People think they can dust off their weapon a day before the season opens and ethically shoot a living animal. Now, the vast majority of folks on this forum do not fall into that category. I know because you guys talk about technical aspects of crossbows, only known to experienced shooters. I cant say I speak for all vert shooters, nor do I want to, but this is the reason some of us have ill feelings toward the crossbow.

Your right though Woody, the execution should be the only difference, and for the majority of serious huntes it is, but as we all know, its the bad apples that spoil the bunch.

As far as your topics, Mike, I always like seeing kids getting into hunting, but whatever it is im sure you will write it well.

[Woody Williams]

Sorry Kention...but I have shot, hunted with and killed animals with recurves, compounds (2 , 4 and 6 wheels) and crossbows for 40 years. So I do know what I am at talking about.

My switching over to crossbows made absolutely no change from the way I had bowhunted before. I still scouted the same, set up on bucks the same way, often hunted the very same trees as before, shot deer/turkeys at the very same distances.

Deer and turkeys still picked me out or smelled me just like they did before.

NOTHING changed except the execution of the shot at crunch time. Before I had to raise my bow, draw, aim, hold and squeeze the release trigger or relax my fingers. With my crossbw I have to raise it up, aim, hold, and squeeze the trigger.

The animal dies by the same menthod A razor sharp broadhead through the lungs causing massive blood loss and lung collpase.

Categories of hunters has absolutely nothing to do with it. There are slobs and unethical hunters packing all kinds of hunting tools, including vertical bows, in the woods.

[wheelie]

Kenton wrote"but this is the reason some of us have ill feelings toward the crossbow. "

I ask why u been here four years as a member and u feel this way about us. You have hidden agenda for someone or something?

Sounds a little fishy to me!

[Mike P]

As far as your topics, Mike, I always like seeing kids getting into hunting

It is a favorite subject of mine as well Kenton. And it is the greatest threat to our sport. Enough kids are not taking up what we so dearly love. Our numbers are shrinking and if the trend continues it will ultimately be the death of hunting.

I had an idea along these lines that I was going to pursue. I was going to look at the hunting marketplace from a business viewpoint. All the companies (Excalibur Included) in the industries associated with hunting are dealing with an overall shrinking marketplace. The number of hunters continue to decline. Thus, potential buyers are fewer and the market shrinks. Yet it is still a very large market and is able to support many businesses. The trick is to gain more and more market share of the shrinking market.

What I think I will write about is how it is in the best interest of every company out there to have programs for children (Excalibur included). This is the way to sustain a market, just ask the tobacco companies! I know there are a lot of programs out there and that many of the companies support those efforts. But I do not think it is enough, and I have statistics to support my view.

There has to be more direct involvement from businesses servicing this market. And not just from the big players that we all see on the outdoor shows each week. The little mom and pops need to get involved as well.

It is a win/win situation.

And I think it is time we all start talking about it.

[Mike P]

Kenton wrote"but this is the reason some of us have ill feelings toward the crossbow. "

I ask why u been here four years as a member and u feel this way about us. You have hidden agenda for someone or something?

Sounds a little fishy to me!

As far as the fish odor, Kenton assures me that the smell comes from his close association with forum member FredBear. Fred spends way to much time out on the water.

As for hidden agendas, I just don't see it. Kenton has been a very valuable member of our forum and a wonderful contributor. He even ran the forum deer contest the year before last. His education from Ohio State gives him a unique perspective about our sport and his insights have always been spot on.

Wheelie, I think all Kenton was trying to do with his post is point out reasons (be they valid or not) the vertical hunters have less then favorable views regarding crossbows.

The only difference I see with compounds versus crossbows is pulling the string and using muscles to hold that sting at full draw. That's it. We pull our strings with the crossbow and they stay at full draw. Potentially that means less movement for the animal to see.

Performance wise I am no better with my Excalibur's then I am with my Martin or Onida compounds.

[wheelie]

You would know more than me Mike P you been here along time, I stand corrected. Just made me wonder. I just wonder having never shot one before how one can ah never mind

[FredBear]

As far as the fish odor, Kenton assures me that the smell comes from his close association with forum member FredBear. Fred spends way to much time out on the water.

Mike your right again! I've been "off" the water WAY to long. It's all frozen up here. I can't wait for total open water. So I can fill the freezer with walleye, and the crappie for Kenton. Someone can't handle the big open water without chuming

Wheelie you couldn't be farther off. This is a case of foot in mouth. I should know i've been there a few times!

[Kenton]

Ok, i have have been misunderstood. Woody, I know you are a good shooter. Having never met you or seen you shoot, the way you and many other forum members talk about shooting is proof to me. And I harbor no ill feelings towards crossbows, rifles, ATVs, etc inherently, but its the way SOME people use these things strictly to avoid doing the work required to be a good shooter, hunter, and outdoorsperson. My point is that it seems like the debate in the hunting community is between crossbows and vertical bows when, in fact, it should be between the ethical and the non.

P.S. I do have an anterior motive. The great information generated by this forum's members is enough to keep me coming back regardless of what I shoot.

[Kenton]

[
As far as the fish odor, Kenton assures me that the smell comes from his close association with forum member FredBear. Fred spends way to much time out on the water.

I can assure you Fred is the one who smells like fish, because I sure as hell can't catch um. (I have fun trying...at first)

[Woody Williams]

Ok, i have have been misunderstood. Woody, I know you are a good shooter. Having never met you or seen you shoot, the way you and many other forum members talk about shooting is proof to me. And I harbor no ill feelings towards crossbows, rifles, ATVs, etc inherently, but its the way SOME people use these things strictly to avoid doing the work required to be a good shooter, hunter, and outdoorsperson. My point is that it seems like the debate in the hunting community is between crossbows and vertical bows when, in fact, it should be between the ethical and the non.

P.S. I do have an anterior motive. The great information generated by this forum's members is enough to keep me coming back regardless of what I shoot.

Do you say the same thing about SOME people that shoot and hunt with compound bows instead of recurves or long bows?

Do they shoot the compound in order to "strictly avoid doing the work required to be a good shooter, hunter, and outdoorsperson."?

You are perpetuating a myth that crossbowers shoot crossbows in order to take the easy way out.

Your paint brush is way too wide...then again, maybe not wide enough to include the compound shooters/hunters.