Bolt for Phoenix?

[cajun]

I have a Phoenix with Boo string with whiskers and STS system. I have been shooting Firebolts with a 100 grain point with a total weight of 385 grains. I replaced the aluminum insert with brass and the bolts with 100 grain point now weigh 470 grains. That seems a bit heavy. Does anyone have experience shooting a bolt this heavy from a Phoenix? What kind of speed should I expect from either weight bolt? I plan to utilize this for hunting whitetail.

Thanks,,,,,

[crazyfarmer]

its nothing wrong with that setup and as said above you will get more stable flight in bad conditions.

as for whether its better than the 385 setup, that just depends. The heavier bolt will knock through bone better. The lighter setup gets there about 10-15fps quicker

both will do the job just fine though..

something in the 400-420 range would be ideal though since its the best of heavy and light:)

if you are fine with the fps loss, then the 470grain arrow will do just fine:)

[rt2bowhunter]

I have a Ibex. I have the easton with brass inserts and GT's brass inserts.
My power bolts weight 465gr and shoot 280fps. The GT's weight 400gr and shoot 290fps. Thats with a string i made from 452x and wiskers.
My bow feels better and sounds quieter with the heaver arrows. And at 40yds my limit i dont see any big difference in POI.

[wabi]

I prefer something in the 380gr range in my Phoenix.
You don't need that "bone crushing" power if you place your shots well, but that little bit of extra velocity could make a difference.

[sumner4991]

We see this question very often.

bstout preaches not too lite and not too heavy. What's that mean? Well, it depends on a number of factors.

What size animal you are hunting. It takes more KE to push an arrow through a elephant than to push the same arrow through a rabbit.

What weapon you are using. The Exomax will throw an arrow faster than a Vixen.

The size cut broadhead you are using. A 2" cut will take more KE to get through a 100 pound deer than a 1" cut broadhead.

There really isn't a one size fits all. The deer in my area are a little smaller than the deer in other areas. However, larger than deer in the swamps of S.C.

I actually had to experiment to get the weight just right for the Whitetails in my area. I kept adding weight until I got a complete pass through with my biggest cut broadhead. I currently get a complete pass through and the arrow comes to rest within 10-15 yards of the POI . . .that's with me shooting broadside from the ground. I had an arrow to pass through and keep going for 30 yards and then stick into a tree so deep I couldn't get it out. That was with too little of a cut and too much weight. Of course, that is not as big a issue for guys in trees.

We probably need to come up with some sort of scale . . .a starting point. Maybe we could come up with a software program and make millions . . .

[Limbs and Sticks]

Figure my arrows 352grs 350fps that's my ke, will kill any thing I'm hunting, anything your arrow comes in contact before it's poi it will be off course I've never seen any different, hitting or brushing something is different than wind or rain, just what I've experience



http://www.archeryhq.com/kin.htm

Wes

[sumner4991]

Regardless of the target/animal you're shooting at...there is a single weight arrow that will "fly" best from a given draw weight bow.

A single weight? If it were that easy, then there would be a chart, right? There is a range for best flight. Within that range, you will find a single weight that is perfect for the broadhead/weapon being used for the size animal hunted. If you are just target shooting, then I can see your arguement for a single weight.

I'm saying, for hunting, a too light arrow combined with a too large broadhead shot into a too large animal will not penetrate enough for fatal cutting. You will need a heavier arrow and/or a smaller cut broadhead or a smaller animal to get a complete pass through.

Anyway . . .I don't see setting up a bow based optimal flight without consideration for the type of hunting you are wanting to conduct. If you do, then you could very well end up with a combination that just doesn't cut it.

For example . . .I wouldn't use my current set-up on a moose. I would either make my arrows heavier and/or use a smaller cut broadhead. I do not think the change would make my arrows less accurate because they would still be within a good weight range.

[Limbs and Sticks]

THERE'S NO COMPROMISE WITH MY SET UP, I HIT WHAT I AIM AT, AT 350FPS WITH KE AT 96% with my352gr arrows no prob with it, so I really don't know what your prob is with speed and lite.

WES

[Boo]

Regardless of the target/animal you're shooting at...there is a single weight arrow that will "fly" best from a given draw weight bow.

An arrow that is matched to the draw weight of the bow (not too light or too heavy) will have optimum flight characteristics.

If an arrow is under driven it will fly very stable but hit the ground prematurely not getting to the target.

If an arrow is over driven (too much power) it will fly squirrelly and erratic.

With in normal hunting ranges this is absolutely not true and quite miss leading to the new comers here. I have found that 350 gr in a 200 lb bow gives pin point accuracy just like 500+ heavy weights. I like those light arrows, quite a few others here use minimum or near minimum arrows, heck even Bill T uses them and quite successfully apparently from the videos I've seen. The single drawback in using an arrow in the minimum range is long range shooting past 50 yards. They simply do not spin fast enough to stabilize themselves so they are no good for shooting at whitetails at 60 yards big deal. Lets let the new comers have some fun. Cajun, lighten up those arrows and have at it!

[sumner4991]

Speed and accuracy are inversely proportional.

Bob, I disagree. A very slow moving arrow is harder to control than a fast arrow, especially in hunting conditions. There is a range where an arrow is moving at an optimal speed. It's a relatively large range.

Where I suggest bows could be charted by your theory is by brand & model. For example, if there was a single best weight arrow for each bow, then a Vixen would come with that weight arrow recommended . . .highly recommended. Obviously, this doesn't happen because there is no single best weight. There is a range. A range that can be used to modify the arrow to hunt different sized species of game.

Come on Bob . . .join in the speed game. You would enjoy it. The little lite arrows are a hoot to shoot. And, you will find, they are very accurate.

[Bowster]

I have added weight to my bolts this year as well. Added the brass inserts and am now at about 470 gns. Looking for a little more KE for the upcoming moose season. Was lucky to pull a bull tag in 15b.

I have learned a valuable lesson with this setup. Don't shoot at the same spot....

[Limbs and Sticks]

This stuff has been beaten into the ground so many times by so many people and it's all over the internet and in text books.

It has nothing to do with anyone's opinion.

The extremes are the wrong place to be in most cases. Too light, too heavy are both incorrect. I don't know how to make it more plain.

Shoot what you like...I do.

Let people decide for themselves, Shoot what you like....I do Well let them instead of telling people how incorrect they are every time speed comes up

Wes

[sumner4991]

The extremes are the wrong place to be in most cases. Too light, too heavy are both incorrect. I don't know how to make it more plain.

Try defining "too lite" and "too heavy". Where is the extreme on my Vixen? At what weight will I start losing accuracy with my Vixen?

I have some lite arrows and I have some heavy ones. The lite ones are 20" GTII with alu inserts, 2" Blazers, and 100 grain tips. The heavy ones are 20" Powerbolts with brass inserts, 4" vanes, and 140 grain tips. Both are very accurate and I can't tell any difference in their flight out to 50 yards. So, it's hard for me to agree with what you are saying about losing accuracy with a liter/faster arrow, especially at hunting distances.

[sumner4991]

Both are very accurate and I can't tell any difference in their flight out to 50 yards.

Shooting indoors (no wind) or through a high crosswind and rain? Without all of the information the phrase "good groups at XXX yards" means little.

For those of you who don't enjoy reading my posts...please stop reading them. When you see my avatar skip passed the post.

It's that simple!

Bob . . .I shoot outdoors, usually sunny and breezy . . .I rarely practice in the rain, I found it too messy. I shoot the arrows side by side. I find the variety interesting and fun.

I can tell you which arrow I just shot by the feel of the bow. The heavy ones are smoother with less noise. I like the trajectory of the lite arrows. Takes some of the guess work out of estimating distance. I like the penetration abilities of the heavier arrows, which is why I ended up with a 125 gr broadhead. However, they are equally accurate, especially at hunting distances of less than 40 yards.

Overall, I find your posts very informative. I'm just having trouble understanding your position on this issue.

Scott

[Limbs and Sticks]

IT's hard not to read your post when your to busy telling folks how incorrect they are with what they shoot if it's not near what you shoot, I didn't know you were a engineer and designer for excalibur, lite or heavy wouldn't even be a issue on here if you would stop telling folks how incorrect they are.....

Wes