Vanes Falling Off

Phoenix_Tom · Post by **Phoenix_Tom** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:48 pm

I fletched a couple of batches of arrows recently. The first batch is perfect and is what I'm using on the crossbow for the hunt right now (2216s). They've been shot over a 100 times and they're solid. The second batch was for my compound bow. These arrows are 2213s. Both were fletched in RH using an Arizona EZ Fletcher jig (for aluminum) and Goat Tuff Glue. For the first batch I used NAP Quikspin ST Speed Hunter vanes and for the second batch I used Fusion vanes. In both cases the arrows were meticulously prepped. All vane material and glue was stripped, the arrows were steel wooled, acetoned, wiped down with alcohol etc.

I took a break from the hunting this afternoon and pulled out my old compound and blew the dust off it. I was looking forward to trying out the newly fletched arrows and sighting in / paper tuning the bow since I recently added a new rest (Octane Hostage Pro). The very first arrow lost a vane. I remembered the cock vane alignment was opposite of what it used to be so I proceeded to sight in and paper tune the bow. I lost a couple of other vanes. I called it quits after a Robin Hood. I checked the vanes out and they're easily being pulled off - even from an arrow I never shot.

What could be going on here? Could the Goat Tuff glue be bad? It might have frozen once or twice. Could the Arizona jig have problems with 2213s? Are the Fusion vanes crap?

I'd research this online but I've got to drive from my camp into a hotspot to post this. I figured the experts here might have some in-sights. In the meantime I'm going to refletch those arrows with AAE Fastset Gel glue when I get back to the camp and see if that makes a difference.

By the way, they might as well declare this week a write-off in WMU 58. With the rain and the heat nothing is moving.

Grizzly Adam · Post by **Grizzly Adam** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:04 pm

So long as your fletching jig properly applies pressure to your shafts, and they were properly prepared, you must assume that your glue was bad.

Phoenix_Tom · Post by **Phoenix_Tom** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:13 pm

That's what I'm thinking. But I'm wondering if it's because it froze, or if Goat Tuff ain't so tuff, or if it's single use only. I used it one time after the original batch and I caught some crystals in it. But that repaired arrow still has it's vanes after 100 shots.

I'll see how the AAE works.

Thanks Grizzly Adam!

vixenmaster · Post by **vixenmaster** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:59 pm

I used goat tuff glue on 100 or so Blazer vanes & they come off regularly. i quit buying those vanes & that glue

wabi · Post by **wabi** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:43 pm

The 22 series arrows are the same outside diameter. It's the wall thickness that varies (a 2213 has an outside diameter of 22/64" and a wall thickness of .013" - a 2216 has the same 22/64" outside diameter, but a wall thickness of .016").
It could be the glue, or it could be the finish on the arrow shafts. I have run into old arrows that wouldn't seem to hold the glue. I would guess oxidation of the paint was the culprit.

When a vane comes off is the glue that remains stuck to the vane or the arrow shaft????
If the glue is still on the shaft only, the vanes might the problem - and if the glue is on the vanes only, the shaft might the problem.

If the glue is still on both surfaces (or neither) the glue is probably bad.

Cossack · Post by **Cossack** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:04 pm

Try Gorilla brand crazy glue (blue cap) your problems will end.

vixenmaster · Post by **vixenmaster** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:21 am

the glue still holding to the shaft that was painted. glue on shaft to those not painted. figure my Blazers were junk

Phoenix_Tom · Post by **Phoenix_Tom** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:05 pm

Thanks for all the info guys! I refletched that batch last night with the same type vanes but with the AAE gel glue. I liked the gel. I'm waiting til tonight to give them the tug test and will shoot them this weekend.

When the vanes came off there wasn't much glue left on the arrow shafts. These arrows are the same as my 2216s - just much older. It may be oxidization. They were prepped the same way.

Just to clarify something: I thought the acetone was to help remove the old glue and that it was the alcohol that did the final cleaning. Some of you are talking about "cleaning" with acetone.

Regarding the Blazers, I was told that they'd had that problem before but I know many, if not most people that fletch their own on this forum use the Blazers, so they can't be that bad! The guys that make the Fusion vanes apparently looked at the problem with the Blazers and added extra lip for extra surface area for added bonding.

vixenmaster · Post by **vixenmaster** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:03 pm

i have had problems with Blazers fer 3 yrs. i quit using them. i clean my shafts with either ajax or comet wash in scalding hot water. then i acetone & then alcohol clean cotton towel dry. fletch any time after that.

Michihunter · Post by **Michihunter** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:10 am

Cossack wrote:Try Gorilla brand crazy glue (blue cap) your problems will end.

I second that. Been building arrows for over 35 years and Gorilla superglue (blue top) IMO the best I've used..Blazers or any other brand makes no difference. Clean shafts with 99% alcohol. I use it on aluminum and carbons. Good luck.

greenjoytj · Post by **greenjoytj** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:01 am

I'm sure there are lots of glue that will work good for bonding vane to aluminum or carbon shafts, my choice has been to use Bohning fletch-tite platinum. It has not failed to hold the bond.
I dislike the instant crazy glue type of glue because the glue residue is too hard to scrape off carbon shafts (I immediately re-fletch the factory made excalibur carbon bolts).

The NAP quikSpin St Speed Hunter vanes I use state in their instructions that the vane has been factory pre-treated with some chemical that improves the glue bond. NAP advises you don't remove this coating prior to installation.

I have had old arrows that were fletched 20 years ago that have had their fletching fall off. But that does not surprise me because I believe oily chemicals never stop sweating out of plastic vanes (of any kind) this oil sweat will eventually cause the glue bond to fail.
I re-fletch these old shaft when this problem occurs.

sumner4991 · Post by **sumner4991** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:18 am

smokepolehall wrote:i have had problems with Blazers fer 3 yrs. i quit using them. i clean my shafts with either ajax or comet wash in scalding hot water. then i acetone & then alcohol clean cotton towel dry. fletch any time after that.

smokepolehall . . .you must be getting them too clean.

I have been using Blazers for three seasons. No problem with them at all. However, I use the crazy glue and do not clean the shafts. The gel or the special applicator works great.

I decided to use some of the Bohning glue that greenjoytj spoke of because I figured it would be the best to use with the Blazers(same company). I liked the glue because of the way it handles. However, it did not hold the Blazers.

The crazy glue is hard to remove from the shafts when refletching . . .however, I want something that actually sticks. So, there's the trade-off on the glue. Same thing goes for using Gorilla glue on the nocks/inserts.

I complained to Bohning about the glue and they said I needed to properly clean the shaft. I'll give them that, however, there was nothing on the package to indicate that special cleaning was needed. I could have gotten a bad batch. They sent me a new tube to try . . .I gave it to the needy.

Cossack · Post by **Cossack** » Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:59 am

Not a fair test. Vanes generally let loose at the front or back, not the middle.
If you're going to test the product test it where detachment most often occurs.