anti-dryfire project

[killshot]

Excals are great as they are.

Exactly!

X2

[awshucks]

I understand Mr. T to be saying he will leave things as they are. GOOD NEWS!

What Bill actually said was to add a DFI, I'd/we'd have to jack the price up for no good reason, lol.

[wabi]

Thanks and sorry about working an old tooth loose. Next time I will check
so I dont re-post. I am totally impressed with excaliburs limb technology. I feel
100% more comfortable than with the cams and cables on my "old" Barnett.
Thanks for all your insites and opinions,you have made me a more inteligent
archer. Hank

Hank,
Your lack knowledge of the reasoning behind not having a dry-fire device on the Excaliburs is understandable. No problem with reviewing the reasons.

A lot of us are sometimes too easily influenced by the competitor's advertising. Just because another brand has features the Excalibur doesn't is not necessarily an indication the other brand is better. Some us fall prey to the hype that speed is the way to judge performance, but that's not necessarily true either.
In my opinion accuracy and ease of maintenance are strong selling factors for the Excalibur line.

The options of being able to let the string down by hand (not available on those bows with anti-dryfire) and easily changing a string at home or in the woods are valuable to me as an Excalibur user. I usually shot an arrow to unload the bow, but I sometimes let the string down by hand if I think deer might be close, but it's past legal hunting time. I can make a quiet exit and stand less chance of "educating" the deer to my blind or stand location that way.

I'm sure a dry-fire preventive sounds appealing, but the best option is to learn a sequence of:
Cock bow - put safety ON - load arrow.
If you're not ready to load an arrow, don't cock the bow. You'll never dry-fire it if it isn't cocked.

The only exception I make to that rule is when hunting from a tree stand and it's necessary to cock the bow on the ground. Some of my stands don't allow safe cocking of the bow in the stand (not enough platform room), and in those cases I'll cock it on the ground, put the safety on, then hang it on my pull-up line. When in the stand I get all my accessories stored I haul the bow up, check the safety, then load an arrow.
Luckily my #1 stand is big enough to cock the bow in easily (a two-man ladder stand), so I can haul it up uncocked, then get it ready to shoot when I'm set to start the watch.

[wheelie]

Now a "anti don't forget to take off the rope cocker" device is something I could use!

Could have used one myself. Plastic handle from the rope cocker broke on my poor finger and split it open.

[longwinters]

If you have long gun experience it is common practice to hit the safety for safety. If we treat the xbow with the same attitude there would be no dryfires.

Long

[Island Hunter]

I have had the misfortune of a dry fire, and it was caused by a distraction, but I learned not to let it happen again.
Now when I cook it I go through the whole routine before I do anything else, period, and I have never had it happen again.
I like the simplicity of my excal and wouldn't want it any other way, Thanks Bill, for an awesome piece of equipment.

[End of the road]

There is some talk in this thread about potential liability issues of not having an anti dry fire device as well as having an anti dry fire device. Truth be told, if someone was injured in a dry fire incident any lawyer worth their salt would come after the manufacturer for bad design in an inherently dangerous product. A good lawyer would argue that if there was no device then there should have been, especially since dry fires are a known hazard. Plus it would have been cheap to install as compared to the loss suffered by the victim. If there was a device the lawyer would argue it gave a false sense of security or did not function properly or it was a poor design and easily overridden. Whatever product you make there are potential liability issues.

Some products are obviously dangerous and the hazards are known just by looking at it. Barbed or razor wire is a good example. The risks of using the product are open and obvious. The hazards of other products are less obvious. For example, you may have seen stories about baby strollers that tipped backwards and injured little kids or bunk beds where kids got their head caught in the railing slats and essentially hung themselves if they fell out. In crossbows maybe a dry fire related injury is in that less obvious category.

When a product is useful and cannot be made less dangerous by reasonable design changes, such as with a ladder, then the consumer needs to be fully warned of the unexpected risks associated with the use of the product. That is why you see all those little warning stickers on products and in instruction sheets. Sometimes they go a little overboard but when you deal with the public you have to make sure you warn in a way the dullest pencil in the box will understand. My favorite is the warning not to use a hairdryer in the bathtub. I heard a joke once that ladders should have a warning sticker that they should not be used around lawyers because most ladder accidents have been found to involve lawyers.

Excals are cocked and fired every day. Is their risk of injury from a dry fire the same as with compound crossbows? In my humble opinion, the product is designed and built so well that it is probably not likely. I have read on the threads of some cracked limbs and admittedly I am new to crossbows but I have never heard of a complete disintegration of an Excal product and resultant injuries. To steal an old phrase, the Excals take a licking and keep on ticking.

If Bill and crew are as serious about intelligently running their business as they obviously are about building the best designed and built crossbow on the market they have surely carefully weighed the risks and benefits of an anti dry fire and made the business decision to leave things as they are. He as much as said so in this thread. I expect their insurance company is OK with their decision and their record.

A good, well designed product that can withstand the abuse associated with the forces present in a crossbow when someone does something unwise goes a long way toward preventing injury and keeping their insurance rates down. Will it prevent a lawsuit if someone gets injured due to a dry fire? Frankly, no. Relying on the airspace between someone’s ears to prevent injury is often no longer good enough.

If I was asked to recommend one change it would be to the warnings section in the instruction booklet. They should define what a dry fire is and make it clear that serious injury could occur if the product is dry fired.

[one shot scott]

In my experience, the best way to avoid a dryfire is to stay away from this:

100%, PURE LIQUID DRYFIRE!!! And any of the other brands out there too!

[Dereck]

All mechanical things can malfunction so an anti dryfire will give you a false sense of security and when it fails BAM Dryfire.
Yes I have dryfired my bow not a good feeling.
But I take extra care making sure I have an arrow properly seated before shooting went as far as putting in a slot on my rear site so I can see the rail when shooting.

[bkisel]

I had a dry fire awhile back and since then I've added this to my manual of arms... After cocking and safety on my foot does not leave the stirrup until a have an arrow in my strong hand. I've not shot from a tree stand where you need to cock on the ground and haul up but I've two ideas. One would be to tie a ribbon around the grip and over the safety after cocking and safety on and before haul rope is attached.. Another would be to have a piece of cardboard under the scope cover (or a cover over the peep) but this might cost you a shot ifin you forgot to load when you first settled into your stand.


Bill K.

[Pydpiper]

If I was asked to recommend one change it would be to the warnings section in the instruction booklet.

Here ya go!

[End of the road]

Pydpiper, that is so great. I can think of so many places that would be useful.

[awshucks]

If I was asked to recommend one change it would be to the warnings section in the instruction booklet.

Here ya go!

Now who's the genius? You could get well selling them!

[keen one]

I appreciate the ability to unload without a discharge.
Please consider my vote for the safety (in addition to the mechanical device) the one that lies between the ears.

[catcher]

My ten point that I have is the Stealth X2 and it has a anti dryfire device and can easily be unloaded without shooting an arrow in the ground. And it is 175 pounds. It has a spot for your thumb to click on it as you let the string down and is easy to do. When I use that bow I unload it by hand every time. The only draw back is you have to check to make sure you have seated the arrow past the device before you go to shoot it or else when you fire it , it will go to the device and the string will stop after about an inch of travel. I have done that twice. But still better than dry firing I think. I have dryfired a excalibur once. Boo can tell you all about that. There was no damage, thank god. But it was scary as hell. But if the bow can handle such stress then there is really no need to add something else to it. But I have always wondered why there is not one. Now reading this post it helps me understand why.