Please support this, next time it might be YOU

[Tom]

Hello I am not one to ask for much from anyone. But today I am requesting help with a petition.

Back in Jan a retired principle went fishing on Lake Scugog. After fog rolled in he left the ice, got lost and walked too far into a marsh area and the ice there was thinner and he fell through. Here is part of the story:
http://www.durhamregion.com/news/articl ... escue-bill

For the town of Port Perry to charge for 911 rescues to me is STUPID. This could have been any one of us outdoor people. I do not have over $5 000 if I run into any trouble and need to call 911, DO YOU?

Please support my petition to not use any Port Perry business until they rescend this policy. Also could you pass it along to others.

https://www.change.org/petitions/port-p ... -911#share

Thanks

Tom

[taz3]

The other side of this story is there was a warning posted to outdoors folks to stay off the lake, he was fore warned not to go out. If folks are being careless I don't think it's my responsibility to foot the bill either. With that said, if there is an accident then no, there should be no charge, but if it is from self induced carelessness, maybe folks will think twice about their actions. The residents of Port Perry have a different opinion about this gents ignorance to the warnings, it was on local tv news.

I live on lake Simcoe and every year someone needs to be rescued because of the ignorance to the conditions and I don't think I should have to pay for it. If you're driving a 6000lb truck on the frozen lake, it's your responsibility to know it is safe to do so.

I will never need to be rescued, because of poor judgement, there's nothing I need on a frozen body of water I would ever need to risk my life for. If its not safe or questionable I don't venture out.

[Tom]

Taz you need to learn the full facts before you make a statement like you did.

Yes there was a warning (not very publicly stated, not many would know of that warning) about thin ice on Lake Scugog. But you need to learn the facts about that Lake. There is many springs in that lake which make the Ice on that lake thin in areas.

The local athorities put out a warning if any part of that lake has thin ice. I have personally seen 12 inches of solid blue ice in most areas where there was open water in other areas.

The day this happened, I believe there was a solid 5 inches of good ice where he was (if my memory is correct) but it was the problem of the fog. Ice does not form well in or over a mash area. When he wondered off line because of the fog and over a marshy area (3 feet of water) the ice broke and in he went. Because the bottom of the lake is mud, he could not get out.

I sure hope that your not in that area TAZ if you ever need help.

[taz3]

I'm not dying to discredit you, and I've posted the facts I have been made aware of from the news. It maybe a better thought to suggest never go out without a compass.

[Tom]

Taz I am not trying to get into an arguement with you but if you think that what you heard in the news is totally correct, then you need to learn a lot more about how the news stations or newsprint work. They print or tell stories just to cause concern to raise readerships or more watchers on the channel.

Here is a clip from the local news paper here in Oshawa, the Oshawa This Week

The Township, however, has been handcuffed by provincial privacy laws which prohibit the municipality from using personal information -- such as names and addresses -- garnered from a police report for billing purposes.

Last fall, Scugog Fire Chief Richard Miller told councillors he would ask his firefighters to try to collect personal information from anyone rescued, specifically so that Scugog could try to recoup some of its costs.

"When you're on the lake and you call 911 and we come and rescue you, you should expect a bill for fees and services as council has directed the fire department (to send)," said Chief Miller on Monday.

To me this shows all they care about is money and not the rescue. But they want the money spent from sportsmen/women.

[taz3]

No ruffled feathers here.

I agree awareness should be at the forefront for everyone's safety.

[Bones]

Fight the town !!! Don"t hurt the businesses in the community, It's not their fault some guy got lost in the fog!

[Doe Master]

Tom I can definitely see where Taz is coming about the carelessness of some individuals who are putting the rescuers lives at risk .
Some examples of carelessness that come to mind is the repeated rescues of people from Lake Simcoe after ice warnings .
Or when I lived in BC . The thrill seekers who go out of bounds on the mountain just to ski fresh powder . Then get caught up in something that puts the search and rescue at extreme risk .
An accident though preventable as it may be is just that an accident .

[Ont_Excal]

To me it's like this.
There are many jurisdictions now starting to penalize ice fisherman because of the cost in dollars and the risks taken by rescue personnel.
To go out on such a treacherous lake and knowingly putting oneself at risk then the individual has to assume responsibility for a rescue.
No compass and no GPS is why he got lost. Which means he wasn't as prepared as he should have been.
He's lucky he only has to pay with money.
He might have had to pay with his life.

Petition the municipality.
Petitioning against businesses will only cause a lot of hard feelings.

[rayman]

I've never been to lake Scugog and probably never will, but there is a similarity where I live as the costs of emergency responces is being put on the one having the emergency, as long as you have a certain income level. It has not always been like this. I would not mind it so bad if many people weren't getting the same services for free, along with their free cell phone. My wife had to take my son for stitches recently and it cost $1,600 while the people told my wife that if our income was below a certain level it would have cost $50. All of my expenses are going steadily up and when you need some government provided service that has always been there, they say their funding has been hit too hard.

[wheelie]

I live in a fishing town and to many times out of towners drive up and put in there boat to our horror that fish the bay regularly. I do think they should pay for there rescue. Why should my tax dollars pay for someone elses stupidity. Before you say it would not be local tax dollars for rescue. What fire dept and police would be dispatched. You need them, you pay. Us locals are not the ones being rescued every week and have helicopters out searching for us. We carry radios, compasses ect and if I did need them it would be a real life or death emergancy and I would expect to pay. Thats my opinion upon seeing it seven or eight times a year atleast.

I got lost deer hunting last fall in -15oC weather. I got out of bush at 1am in the morning. I hunted that 153 acres for 15 years. I was in contact with my wife on cell phone. Had her drive around the side streets and beep horn till eventually I heard her. Whos should have paid if I would have needed recued. I went out on my own free will without the nessiasary things to get back if something went wrong which it did. I found a shelter I didn't want to leave incase I had to sleep there as I figured I could light a fire at the one end for warmth. I learned from my lesson and will be prepared from now on incase it happens again. We learn from our mistakes and he will learn from paying for it.

Morrel of the story is never follow a pack of six deer in a major snow storm as they do not go in a strait line as they walk about in circles and zigzags.

[Tom]

To me it's like this.
........................
To go out on such a treacherous lake and knowingly putting oneself at risk then the individual has to assume responsibility for a rescue.
No compass and no GPS is why he got lost. Which means he wasn't as prepared as he should have been.
He's lucky he only has to pay with money.
He might have had to pay with his life.

Petition the municipality.
Petitioning against businesses will only cause a lot of hard feelings.

The lake was not a treacherous as they make it out to have been. IF I am remembering correctly, there was over 4 or 5 inches of good ice, that is enough ice to support an ATV and he was just a human on foot.

To say he was unprepared because he had no GPS or compass is silly. A compass in the fog is useless unless you are travelling in a straight line and a GPS is not always a true accurate means of travel (they actually tell you not to rely of the GPS as a sole means of travel).

The only way you can make a township respond to this is by making the business's apply pressure on the town. Like I said before, this is a tourist town and rely on the sportsman/womans money for its survival.

You all say well he was warned, what I can see happening now is ......... There is snow on the roads, they say that it is dangerous, and any rescues (911) will be charged because they were warned.

Again the Lake was not as dangerous as they make it out to have been. They just post warnings at any chance for liability reasons.

Tom

[fender]

Years ago 30+, four of us went ice fishing and were in sight on our vehicles all day. Later in the afternoon the fog roled in and after a bit we decided to leave. When we got back we had drifted 1/4 mile north of where we parked and we wern't that far out. Nothing like what this guy went through and I'm glad he's ok, but fog can certainly disorientate you. We have skiers here that continue to ski out of bounce, get lost without a thought of bringing matches, water, or any other survival gear and expect to be rescued all hours of the night. I can undersand a rescue fee but 5K does seems like a lot. A compass or better yet, a GPS, which is now affordable can be a life saver but people tend not to plan for the worst when venturing out.

[sumner4991]

I think this guy used poor judgement . . .why wait until he was up to his knees in mud before calling?

There should be a charge . . .what's a life rescue worth anyways? $5400 may be a tad much, but, seriously . . .there should be a charge.

The need to charge is to motivate people to use better judgement.

If a person can not afford the bill, then there could be a waiver . . .in this case, I think this guy has the $$.

If it were me, then I'd gladly pay the bill and thank the guys that came out and got me. I'd be hating myself for being stupid . . .but, I'd pay the bill, if I had the $$.

[rayman]

So, now there is going to be recreational insurance which will pay for emergency rescue? What, a couple, three hundred, five hundred a year? What will be the deductible, $1,000, $5,000?

BTW, I have boat insurance, and SeaTow coverage. I know SeaTow is just in case the boat quits while I'm out fishing, better to have an not need than to need and not have, but I don't even know if the boat insurance covers emergency rescue. I work my fishing schedule around the weather though, not the fishing around my schedule.