Matrix Mega 405 limbs

[bluehills]

I am on my 3rd set of limbs. First set I had around 300 shots on them, then a splinter. 2nd set I got 9 shots before the splinter. So far only 6 shots on present limbs to confirm impact point. Bolt weight is 440 gr.
Really like the bow otherwise though. My dealer is great....they just overnighted me a new set of limbs both times this happened and I just sent the old ones back in the same box. They even paid shipping both ways. Can't beat that service !!! Hoping this set will be the last ones I need.

[SEW]

I still think that crossbow failures that are not related to any abuse will have a higher occurance the more stress there is, with all else equal. With the limbs on M310-M405, all else is equal. So which will more likely have failures, the ones with more stress. This is common sense. I'm willing to accept this with my 380 & 405. This is just reality. The more extreme the situation, the more likely the breakage. We all know the factors: arrow weight, temp extremes, time left cocked, # of shots, string stretch, etc.
Since we're dealing with very high reliabilities, even the most stressed Excals likely only have very low failure rates, a significant percentage still likely come from some operator error.

[Boo]

I still think that crossbow failures that are not related to any abuse will have a higher occurance the more stress there is, with all else equal. With the limbs on M310-M405, all else is equal. So which will more likely have failures, the ones with more stress. This is common sense. I'm willing to accept this with my 380 & 405. This is just reality. The more extreme the situation, the more likely the breakage. We all know the factors: arrow weight, temp extremes, time left cocked, # of shots, string stretch, etc.
Since we're dealing with very high reliabilities, even the most stressed Excals likely only have very low failure rates, a significant percentage still likely come from some operator error.

Right on Steve! A partial dry-fire or a full dry-fire (how many times??) never phased my Vortex or Y25. The high poundage bows are less forgiving. Also, if something's going to happen (faulty limbs) it's going to show up sooner in the big boys.

[SEW]

Back to the statement: "a flame that burns twice as brightly burns half as long" is good for linear comparisons. However, crossbow limb deflections are likely likely more along the squared or cubed progression.
Jet engines are a classic example of how a little additional stress greatly reduces longevity. The F-111A/E had the P&W P-3 variant of the TF-30 engine: Max thrust ~18,000 # of thrust, whereas the F-111F had an upgraded version of the engine - ~25,600# of thrust from the same basic engine. Downside from the power increase of 35%: reduced overhaul time from 1,000 hours for the "A" model to 400 hrs in the "F" model. This was 1.5 million dollars per engine for overhaul every 400 hrs(every 100-120 flights). 2 engines per plane. Over 30,000# of fuel per flight. Fighters cost a lot to fly? So for a power increase of 35% decreased the longivity 250%. Likewise, actual inflight reliability was reduced. I flew the F-111A & E for 1,700 hours and 1 engine failure inflight. I flew the F-111F for only 400 hours and lost 4 engines inflight, one was a catastrophic failure. Exciting to say the least. So, how much more stress is on the 405 vs a 380 vs a 330, etc? That extra inch, 2 inches, etc of draw over the 310,330,etc comes at a high stress price. Still, I'll take it. The limbs will likely never need to be "overhauled" ; and if they do, they will not cost anything.

Summary: I believe the Matrix and Mini lines will have a higher failure rate than previous Excal versions(unless the limbs are significantly upgraded). Still, I expect the rate to be very low compared to virtually all other brands.
I think Danny Miller knows what he's talking about.

[racking up points]

For what it's worth, I've gone through three sets of M380 limbs over 2 seasons of use and 1000's of shots. These were all returned for splinters, small ones. It has not affected performance, it's been purely cosmetic for me. I send them back anyway because Excalibur stands behind the product. I like knowing there's a safety net, (and a backup bow in my truck!).

I'm with SEW, if you want smaller, narrower, shorter and faster...failures are a part of doing business so have a backup plan. If you want bulletproof and dependable, buy an exo series crossbow.

[Michiganhunter]

That is all very true regarding higher performance vs durability. However as a quality control coordinator for automotive and many years (35) involved with product testing (powertrain) and evaluation. I can say at least in automotive if there are concerns of questionable durability especially when it comes to customer safety these companies must redesign and improve that product to conform with government mandates. As one of Excaliburs people stated on this site (I won't name him) " We have not seen higher rates of warranty issues with the 405 than any other crossbow models" Not quoted word for word but it was written on one of these posts last year. Therefore I think that warranty claim records would be an accurate indicator of limb failure by model and according to an Excalibur spokesperson that is not the case here.

[SEW]

Michiganhunter, those are consoling words. I, too, have read that this particular, earlier quoted individual , made that statement. I truely hope that the M380 and particularly M405 continue to be relatively trouble free.

[R.J.]

I'm thinking same as quoted below by SEW > Forum members WalkinTall / Sandman and myself all experience limb splinters this season ( on a 380 and two 405's ) I personally had never experienced limb splinters previous models over the years > I'm thinking the increase stress on the limbs may amplify even the smallest / undetectable imperfection in a limb during the manufacture process ?

No science behind my thinking , just a gut feeling after shooting Excalibur Model Crossbows since 1983 .

Then I know others that have over 1000 shots on their 405 , without any issues ... that's why I'm thinking that a tiny imperfection in limb manufacture process ( that can't be seen after camo dip ) that wouldn't affect a Vixen set up would be amplified in a 405 set up and prone to splinter failure due to increased stress on the limbs ?

SEW wrote :

Will have a higher occurance the more stress there is, with all else equal. With the limbs on M310-M405, all else is equal. So which will more likely have failures, the ones with more stress. This is common sense. I'm willing to accept this with my 380 & 405.

Bottom line > One thing that has held true in my 30 + years of Excalibur Crossbow ownership is the Customer Service > Warranty work turn around in time to get you back hunting ASAP .

[Talltines]

405 still going strong knock on wood. This bow won't have any time off as i will be target shooting with it this spring and summer. About a solid 400 through it now. Hope my luck keeps going

[redarlo]

Well after just one season found that my 405 right limb has splintered about 3-4 cm away from the brace clamp on bottom side of limb so will be sending in to exchange. Use a 460 grain arrow so thought that might be protective for limbs. Have shot the Matrix 380 for two seasons and shot hundreds of more shots with it than the 405 so hope the new 405 limbs turn out to be more durable and that my current 405 limb situation is just a fluke. Based on what I see here on forum about 405 limbs though it seems that the 405 limbs are definitely stressed more and this splintering is more common than with the 380.

[colouredchameleon]

Too be fair to Excalibur they do stress that the 405 is a hunting bow and not recommend for target shooting.
It may be exciting to shoot but in this case too much of a good thing has a some what predictable downside as well .

[SEW]

Update.

I've had my M405 appx 3 years and 2,000 shots. Trouble free so far.