380 Mad Max,, and 3 Dollar Arrows

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wildcatter
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380 Mad Max,, and 3 Dollar Arrows

Post by wildcatter »

Well I bought a bunch of the Old Spynal Tapps when Jerry put em on sale, and have built a few, yesterday we had a kinda cloudy grey day with a very light breeze for the most part, so I decided to see if they would work. I know how well my Zombies and Executioners shoot from Jerry, but I always have them indexed, then spine and weight matched to the max. These inexpensive Spynal Tapps are simply indexed, nothing more, but I did take them a little further.

When I built em I weighed out 2 dozen 18" and sorted them in groups within .1 grains of each other. After sorting 6 arrows, I then tried a tip from a guy on another forum that knows his arrow's, and @ 20 yards fired them bare shaft as they were already spine indexed from Jerry just not spine or weight matched. I did this slightly rotating each way from spine dead up, after a few shots I found where each shot closest to the same point the majority did without rotating those slightly. Then after getting all six hitting as close to the same hole as I could by rotating slightly and remarking them, I put them together using Blazers w/about a 1% offset, and I weight matched 6 - 87 grain brass glue in inserts, squared and beveled each end of the shaft inside and out, and used plastic flat knocks, w/125 grain combination tips. Total weight was 388 grains. After finishing them I shot them all at 30 yards, and had 4 that were exact same hole over and over again, and 2 that were close just not perfect, marked with two black dots, then one of the perfect ones bit the dust when I shot a second shot at 40 yards offhand one day,,, split the rear losing the nock,,,,

They are dead on at 30 yrds, shoot quite good, but I never tried em for absolute accuracy past that,,,till yesterday, and are shooting 359 fps. av. w/ .8 fps ES. for 10 shots. Giving me 111 lb. ft. K.E. and of course zero Standard deviation,,,Not quite the energy I get with the heavier Zombies that are lighted for hunting @ 120 lb ft ke, but plenty for any animal on this continent of I wanted to hunt with them. Below is what they typically do at 30 yrd. I had to go for the liver letters for one of my shots as I learned already you don't shoot these arrow at the same place twice, as the one I ruined proved,,,,,even off hand.
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I have shot em quite a bit offhand and was happy with them, and considering the price, delighted. But yesterday I sat my target up in the morning @ 50 yards, to see just how good I could make these less than $3.00 a dozen splinters shoot?
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I took one shot off the rest at the deer vitals, and drilled it with the 50 yard aiming point, same sight setting I had since sighting in with the 18" Zombies for hunting in November. They shoot 345 fps. and weight 455 grn. I don't get the same scope settings but it proves 15 fps is meaningless at this range. So I decided to test em with one shot at each 1 1/2" bulls above the deer on my Black Jack Target. I was quite pleased, and think my efforts played off pretty good, as they may not out shoot those expensive Zombie Slayers, but come darned close to equaling them.
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I don't understand how the 14 fps faster arrow is slightly lower that the slower heavier Zombies, but either one will put the arrow inside the 1 1/2" bull when I do my part, and actually as close as I figure, if this was a group it would be somewhere under 1/2" not bad for 3 buck a dozen splinters,,,,,,

I have a dozen 16.5" splinters waiting to get the Micro back together and we will see if the same treatment from those will come close to what the 380 Mad Max will do,,,,, some say the Micro is more accurate, if it is I don't know how,,, but I am going to find out. of those splinters are built with SK-300 vains and 55 grn LNL inserts so I can try 86 grn. glu ins if I want and the other 6 are built with 2" Blazers and 86 grain inserts,,,, they sure are tiny, I just hope there deadly,,,,,,,accurate!
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To me it's worth the time, even if others think it's a waste, I'm convinced bare shaft tuning helps even spine indexed arrow that are not matched, I don't know if I would get the same results if I had them spine matched, but I will be finding out the next time I buy matched arrows!!!
Last edited by wildcatter on Sat May 09, 2015 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hunt Hard or Stay Home!
380 Mad Max, XB-30 Pro 18" ZombiesW/ 125 gr ST
330 Mad Max Custom XB-30 Pro 16" B.E.E. W/100 gr ST
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Tom
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Re: 380 Mad Max,, and 3 Dollar Arrows

Post by Tom »

If you are saying that your lighter, faster arrows are hitting lower at longer distances, I might have an explanation which you could prove easily if I am correct.

I do not have first hand knowledge on this. I remember reading years ago, that heavier arrows hold their speeds better at longer distances. Since your getting consistance accuracy, set up your speed reader 2' in front of your target to get a reading down range. I would be very interested in seing what the speed loss would be down range for both light and heavy arrows.

Tom
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wildcatter
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Re: 380 Mad Max,, and 3 Dollar Arrows

Post by wildcatter »

Tom I think the difference has as much to do with FOC as it does the speed loss, the Zombies are running a lighter foc as they are lighted and have an additional 20 grains or a little more in the rear with the containment, battery, computer and heavier firenock instead of the lighter plastic flat nock. Running heavy FOC I prefer but the higher FOC. But when I run higher FOC's I know i loose a slight amount of flatness. These arrows shoot fabulous, but so do the zombies. The difference is I have over $100.00 in the 6 Zombies, I only have about $15.00 in the Spynal Taps for 6. I am just concerned in what work it takes to make our arrows work, and I have seen first hand matching deflection and weight are big on the need to do list, but Indexing can go beyond spine indexing, as bare shaft tuning improved even that.

I use a multipoint scope so I can calibrate my speed setting wherever I need to get the aiming points on where I want them. So once I have it set I get the same results, plus using a 30 yard zero I get to use a lower power, which gives me more field of view, this is more important to me.
Hunt Hard or Stay Home!
380 Mad Max, XB-30 Pro 18" ZombiesW/ 125 gr ST
330 Mad Max Custom XB-30 Pro 16" B.E.E. W/100 gr ST
Leica R-1000 - Zeiss 8X42 Conquest HD
On the Hunt for the next!!
paulaboutform
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Re: 380 Mad Max,, and 3 Dollar Arrows

Post by paulaboutform »

Fantastic review, absolutely awesome. I love this. I'd also be interested in your downrange speed of the two. Thanks for posting.

Paul
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Starvin' Hillbilly
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Re: 380 Mad Max,, and 3 Dollar Arrows

Post by Starvin' Hillbilly »

Good job! . . . go's ta show ya if'n ya want the accuracy you gotta work for it . . I'd also be interested in the speeds.
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wildcatter
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Re: 380 Mad Max,, and 3 Dollar Arrows

Post by wildcatter »

Man guy's I was hope'n I would talk you out'a the 50 yard velocities, I'm on my 4th chronograph now from doing silly chit like this. :?

I will post these and later I'll set up and see how close they are, but I have a lot of faith in these tables I rely on for these calculations. I am sure you won't see more than 3 or 4 fps difference between the speed each arrow looses, you may see 11 or 12 fps difference between the two instead of the 15 fps off the string,,, but we will see, far more of the trajectory difference is going to lie in like I said, the FOC, and the fletching. This arrow flight voodo can be very time intensive and would interest me more if I competed with my bow, but for killing deer I found it makes little difference out to 50 or 60 yards. Just as speed doesn't do much for me either. Yes I like a decent speed but 20 or 30 fps from the same bow means diddly squat, I will take a 400 to 450 grain arrow anyday over faster arrow lighter than that. Once sighted in a crossbow scope won't benefit more than 1" or so if you misjudge a yardage by 6 or 7 yards @ 50 between those speeds, if you use a rangefinder and know where your shots will be at,,,,, that's irrelevant!! But I will try it next week and see how close my estimate is for how much speed these two loose between them.
Hunt Hard or Stay Home!
380 Mad Max, XB-30 Pro 18" ZombiesW/ 125 gr ST
330 Mad Max Custom XB-30 Pro 16" B.E.E. W/100 gr ST
Leica R-1000 - Zeiss 8X42 Conquest HD
On the Hunt for the next!!
bubba
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Re: 380 Mad Max,, and 3 Dollar Arrows

Post by bubba »

wildcatter, Really a great informative read. Thanks for taking the time. And you have your 380 splitting hairs, nice shooting indeed.. That Mad Max is nice.....
Matrix, 355. Hawke Xb-30 Pro. Ibex, Nikon Bolt. Strings By Boo, Nchunter, Zombies & Spynal Tapps From South Shore Archery,Now Built By My Son, N.A.P. Spitfire XXX and Magnus Black Hornets. (Fight Hard..Love Fast.. Die Young..)
Tom
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Re: 380 Mad Max,, and 3 Dollar Arrows

Post by Tom »

Wildcatter to protect your cronograph, just place a block of firewood in front to protect from an errent arrow.

I also understand your thinking about foc & fletching but with crossbow arrows being much stiffer arrow then a vertical arrow, there will be much less flexing in the arrow. But with the smaller fletching most use today, the back end will circle more so maybe.

The down range speeds might be surprising.

Tom
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