Ashby approved set up, part 2!

[blue360cuda]

Hey everyone, hope you're all enjoying the season so far! I'm back with a real-world update from my Ashby approved crossbow set up and have good news!

The Micro 355 is AWESOME and the Zeiss crossbow scope has proven a great upgrade to my old excal scopes. (sorry excal)

The flemish string that vixenmaster twisted up for me has been perfect too! (shout out to vixenmaster, thanks buddy!)

The 185/125 head/adapter set up was too much, was shooting around 275-280fps, I dropped the weight a little and now have a total of 502g arrow/head. I'm shooting Grizzly 125g 2blade single bevel with a 75g titanium tuff head adapter. Arrow is the same: Spinal tapps custom made from Southshore Archery, double wall, cut to 15.5in and with 125g brass inserts up front. Tuff fletch 2 in fletchings have been excellent.

This set up is driving tacks out to 30 yds and will easily keep under 2-3 inch groups at 50 yards. Good 'nuff for hunting! As Ashby would say, "close enough to kill".

I originally went with this set up after loosing a deer last season (my 2nd in over 20 years of bowhunting). Hit with a rage, right in the butt, knocked deer down, ran off, tracked for 700+ yards and lost trail in a creek. Anyways, This setup will split bone, and if I was shooting it last year that would have been a dead deer with his femur split in 2 and squirting out of his femoral arteries, I have no doubt.

I'm DONE with mechanicals, 3 blades, big cut heads, all of it. These heads are 1 1/8" cut and I shot this bruiser 7pt right behind the shoulder, split 2 ribs and passed through like he wasn't even there.

My Point with this is even a soft tissue shot, that a rage or other big cut head would have no doubt killed this deer, this "small cut" single bevel 2 blade zipped though his lungs and he dropped in sight less than 35 yards from where he was hit. Saw him wobble and fall over in a hay field (easy tracking job!) Excellent blood trail from point of shot too. JUST AS good as a rage i would say, very very easy to follow. When I dressed the deer I laid his lungs open and you could clearly see the "S-shaped" cut everyone talks about from these single bevel heads. They actually pull the soft tissue around them as they spin due to being single bevels and the cut they made was closer to 3-4 inches due to this spinning effect. It was no joke, this deer died fast. The added security that IF (when) I hit bone again, these heads will do the job better than ANY other head design on the market, no questions asked, don't even bother, do your own research if you question this.


Just trying to spread the knowledge! With all the "newest" and "best" broadheads coming out every season I think it's important and we owe it to the critters we chase to use what is really "the best". This style head is time tested and proven over who knows how many thousands of years. Long, 2 blade, high mechanical advantage, cut on contact, you CAN NOT beat this. Please give it a try for yourself. They're darn accurate too

[Doe Master]

Congrats .

[W.Miguire]

Please explain "good enough for hunting" I am a little confused .
W.M.

[rein1]

You lost a deer that you shot in the butt ???? Are you serious ??? If that's the case stop hunting altogether , Why would you shot a deer in the butt and expect to mortally wound that deer ,,,

[mr meat]

Congrats

[Hunt it]

Sorry but Dr. Ed did not approve your set up, nor would he ever. Your statement that these broadheads will do the job better than any other broadhead is a long stretch. As I stated in your last post the single bevel was never designed to be shot out of a xbow at high speed on a short shaft. Your belief that the single bevel is working as designed and what killed this deer is exactly that - your belief nothing more. Any sharp broadhead placed in the right place will do the job it was designed to do. You can attribute your success with this broadhead to the fact that you hit vitals nothing more. Many xbow shooters that have spent hours on the range can attest that greatest accuracy is achieve with the smallest broadheads. Each to his own, use what works and what you believe in but don't preach the Holy Grail until you have it.

[gerald strine]

Congratulations on that fine buck harvested very nice.
I am on board with the fixed head as the best option why not eliminate mechanical issues when it is very easy to get great accuracy from Excaliburs with a fixed head.
I am very pleased with my 4 blade slick tricks and heavy bolts never not had a pass through.
That said I would not shoot for the rump as it is poor odds of being fatal,
you have to stop eater the respiratory, nervous,or circulatory systems to kill and with only one main artery in the rump it is a poor choice.
I commend you on learning from last years experiences and taking action.

[blue360cuda]

Thanks for the kind words and congrats. . .

OBVIOUSLY i wouldnt even try to intentionally shoot a deer in the rump. That was an isolated incident that happened once to me in my 20+ years bowhunting. The only other deer I ever drew blood on and didn't recover was a shoulder hit in my youth with a low poundage bow, I have all the confidence that deer survived.

Yes, a vital double lung shot is best, but stuff happens. deer move at the last second (as in my butt shot case) arrows hit branches/twigs, stuff happens. My whole point with working to build this set up was to get as high of a possibility of success no matter if bone was hit or not. If this arrow hit a femur (not that I would intentionally try to do that, duh) it would split it no doubt and the blood loss alone from a split femur would cause a quick death. Lots of blood in that marrow, why else are there intraosseous devises for quick IV access?

Again, just sharing my experience with this since I couldn't find much if any information when I started about people shooting big 2 blades out of X-bows. They work, they fly great with good accuracy. Maybe not as good accuracy as a tiny mechanical but "good enough to kill" meaning hit the kill zone at my personal max range of 35 yards. I will take a 2 inch group with excellent penetration at 40 yards over a 1/2 inch group from mechanical heads that have a much higher possibility of failure and poor penetration.

[blue360cuda]

hunt it -
what exactly is a single bevel designed to do then that my set up failed to do? It flew great, gave me a 4X4 S-shaped cut much larger than the actual cut width of the head itself and blew through the deer like it wasnt even there.

So amazing penetration, S-shaped cut, split ribs in half x 3 and got a deer who ran 35 yards before crashing down and was dead in under 10 seconds from being hit. gimme a break man, they work. and they work out of a x-bow shooting 300fps.

disappointed with the negativity when just trying to share info, do what you want and good luck out there.

[Hunt it]

I explained it all in your first post. The single bevel was designed to aid in penetration through heavy bone in the event of a not so good a hit. Whitetail ribs are not close to heavy. The single bevel excels when pushed behind a long heavy shaft at lower speeds and this is what it was designed for - traditional archery gear. If you could push a SB Grizzly at 380 fps at 700 + grain arrow and hit good solid bone the broadhead would twist and snap period. I spent a great deal of time testing a number of these heads for the guys making them back when they were coming on line. I know Dr. Ed personally and have spent hours with him on this theory. Like I said to each his own, shoot what works. You left out the in my opinion part in your post and proceeded to claim these broadheads worked better than anything out there! To be very honest and factual the Grizzly is on the bottom end as far as single bevels go. If your excited about them, get yourself some Tuffheads you'll wet your pants over them. To set another thing straight I never mentioned expandables, never, it is my opinion that beyond using them for turkeys they are Junk. Now many love them as much as you love your Grizz and that is fine. Now, your deer is in the freezer and that is all that matters. If they work for you and you limit your shots to under 40 yards you should be fine. Congrats on your deer.

[vixenmaster]

Congrats on takin yer nice deer, mighty fine indeed

[blue360cuda]

Thanks VIxen! Love the string


So yeah, I don't know if there is a crossbow made that would shoot a 700 grain arrow at 380fps but if there is I want it! haha not really. . .

Shooting these 502g arrows out of my micro 355 I'm in the neighborhood of 300 fps, maybe 290. I would also think that the shorter shaft would equate to nothing more than better penetration since there is less drag. Not seeing how a longer arrow would make it more lethal. Anyways, they work, I'll stick with em but am curious to try the tuff heads too. I'll pick up a box and get my 55lb grizzly recurve out for this summer. Have a nasty thick spot that limits shots to under 15 yards, would be perfect for a trad bow.

Have a good one

[Hunt it]

A longer arrow with higher and longer helical fletching has better stabilization and imparts greater rotational effect - which optimizes the SB effect. I'm not saying it won't work to some degree. It would be interesting to see how a 5" extreme helical would work on your short shaft?? Let's face it, if you run that thing with zero rotational effect through the vitals - critters gonna die. The idea is that the rotational effect would split and open up massive bone thus allowing broadhead and shaft to penetrate deeper. Dr. Ed was thinking Cape Buffalo, Australian Buffalo and Giraffe when he did all his testing. Deer were considered small game in Ed's prime hunting days. For most of his African and Australian hunting careers the man shot 80 to 95 pound longbows. Nowadays Ed lives in the hill country of Texas and uses 45 # longbows.

[blue360cuda]

the fletching has nothing to do with single bevel effect through tissue. That makes zero sense, how can a fletch impart rotation once the broadhead has hit tissue . . . no way. Its all about the unequal length of the cutting surface you get with a single bevel v.s. equal length from a double bevel.

as far as helical fletch , how would it clear the rail slot on an excalibur? All I have read regarding Ashby's research is to have as LITTLE fletch as possible, just enough to stabilize the head so that you increase your FOC, the least amount of weight in back as possible.

Not trying to start some stupid internet forum pissing match, just what you're saying doesn't match up with anything I've read and simply doesn't make sense. The blades spin through tissue, fletching has nothing to do with that, fletching just gets the arrow to its destination.

[Hunt it]

No pissing match desired either. The fletching imparts the spin and that is what is needed to gain full benefit of the SB effect. At 15 yards you shoot into a big solid bone with no fletching and your SB and then try it with good matching helical you will see the difference.
Regardless of fletching the single bevel will begin rotation upon contact of meat or bone. This is due to the single bevel. For optimum effect one needs to use the correct feathers to match the bevel. So if your grizzly's are right bevels you need right wing feathers and visa versa. Failing to match the single bevel with the fletching results in energy loss. When using straight fletching there is much less rotation of the shaft which results in non optimal performance.
I'm not saying what you are doing will not work, I'm stating that the theory was designed and tested for optimal effectivness and to get that one must match bevels to feathers with helical out of a trad bow. Sure it will work out of crossbow, you have already proven that fact but you are probably achieving only about 70% effectivness from the SB. Fly them out of your recurve with matching feathers and you will see 100%. Let's go kill some deer with whatever tickles your fancy.