Bolt Speed versus KE and Noise Question...

MWP_N_Cookeville · Post by **MWP_N_Cookeville** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:59 pm

Hi all! Bought a new Phoenix so my boys will be able to join me in the woods for the Tennessee archery season...

Got the Phoenix together and sighted in yesterday and all went well, extremely easy in fact. My question is in regards to bolt speed versus KE and noise. It seems to me that increasing bolt weight from the 360 grains of the Series 22 Gold Tips that I currently have to the 478 grain 2219's would reduce the noise at launch. I'm aware that I'd be giving up speed, but I'd gain KE and would expect some noise reduction. Has anyone else attempted this trade off, and with what results? Thanks...

MWP_N_Cookeville · Post by **MWP_N_Cookeville** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:07 pm

Follow up:

Does going to the heavier bolts negatively affect Accuracy?

What about heavier broadheads?

I know- another newbie with lots of questions...

Thanks...

TYE · Post by **TYE** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:11 pm

Right now I shoot 2219's and they're very accurate. I'm going to switch to Lighter Carbon bolts though. I THINK.

MWP_N_Cookeville · Post by **MWP_N_Cookeville** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:13 pm

Thanks, Tye! What broadhead weight are you using with the 2219's and at what velocity?

A.W · Post by **A.W** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:15 pm

Check this out.

http://www.excaliburcrossbow.com/phpBB2 ... tic+energy

Check "Kinetic Energy" on the search button up top of the page.

TYE · Post by **TYE** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:18 pm

I'm shooting Easton XX75 2219 Aluminums with 100gr Wasp Boss broadheads. Each bolt with the broadhead is around 478grains. I have the Pheonix also. Not sure what velocity I'm shooting at but I think I'm at around 282 fps and 84 ft lbs of Kenetic Energy.

MWP_N_Cookeville · Post by **MWP_N_Cookeville** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:36 pm

Thanks for the link AW!

TYE wrote:... I have the Pheonix also. Not sure what velocity I'm shooting at but I think I'm at around 282 fps and 84 ft lbs of Kenetic Energy.

That sounds about right to me as well Tye, and that's plenty of KE. Did you notice any noise reduction when shooting the heavy bolts versus the 22 series carbons?

Hi5 · Post by **Hi5** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:00 pm

I used to be "hung up" on the noise thing. To my ear, shooting my ExoMag or my ExoMax is sort of like banging two garbage can lids together. The metal kind even. They're noisy.

I got to thinking, though.

Who cares? The deer or elk or moose have fantastic hearing. They're going to hear the discharge of the bow anyway, maybe even the bolt as it flies to them. The point is, if the bolt hits before they can react, IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER.

That's the whole point. Noise isn't something worth worrying about, because you cannot eliminate it. You would have to eliminate it, or more correctly, reduce it to the point where game can't hear it, for your efforts to be meaningfull. That can't be done.

So, I don't care how much it clangs or bangs. It's only I who can be bothered, and I won't let it bother me!!!

MWP_N_Cookeville · Post by **MWP_N_Cookeville** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:11 pm

Thanks Hi5, that sounds like good advice. Having owned a x-bow for exactly 24 hours, and comparing that to my 20 years of vertical bow experience, the x-bow does seem quite loud to me...

DesertRat · Post by **DesertRat** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:44 pm

Crossbows are loud enough for a deer to hear no matter what bolt you shoot. Here is my advice. Grab the lazers. 2 reasons:

1. They are faster and have all the KE you will need on most North American big game

2. They don't bend. A slightly bent aluminum arrow might not fly as well as a straight one. The carbons are either straight or broken. What I do when I buy them is roll them on a flat surface and pic the 6 straightest ones in the bin.

It is not wrong to try and eliminate noise but crossbows tend to be much louder than vertical bows. If you can't dampen the noise to the point where the deer will not hear it, your next best option is to get the arrow there faster.

striper · Post by **striper** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:19 am

DesertRat hit it on the head. Get the bolt there fast! I shoot a 385 grain bolt -broadhead combination on my Exocet (395 FPS) and have not had one jump the string. I DO limit myself to about 30 yards max shot distance. Striper

MWP_N_Cookeville · Post by **MWP_N_Cookeville** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:34 am

Thanks to all who responded! I'll just let it go for now. Maybe look at some heavier bolts if I need to buy some replacements.

Y'all have a good group here- friendly, knowledgable, and ready to help! I've been lurking for a couple months, and look forward to the exchange of ideas in the future! Thanks again!

tomcat · Post by **tomcat** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:50 pm

Hate to rain on anybody's parade, but the speed thing isn't going to overcome the deer's reaction. Sound travels twice the speed of the fastest arrow out of the fastest rig. A deer can react and jump or hunch over 3 feet in less than a tenth of a second. So what this means from all the articles I have read based upon bowhunting and physics is that anywhere beyond a 20 yd shot the deer has the ability to move out of the way if it is startled enough. This means that it is well within it's capability to make a reaction to the source of the noise. Now does this mean it can process where the noise came from, and react in the direction intentionally to avoid the arrow....not likely. However this really matters not, because as many know deer do one of 2 things if startled bad enough, drop or jump. I believe they drop into crouch to prepare to spring off on a run.
I have seen this with the quietest of bows(recurves) and also have seen deer stand there motionless from the loudest crossbows, yet watch the arrow clang thru the weeds(after it has passed thru them).really depends upon the deer and what scares it.
Either way, it is in your best interest to "startle the less" by minimizing the noise as much is reasonably possible, just in case you do take that 30+yd shot:)

TYE · Post by **TYE** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:17 pm

MWP_N_Cookeville wrote:Thanks for the link AW!

TYE wrote:... I have the Pheonix also. Not sure what velocity I'm shooting at but I think I'm at around 282 fps and 84 ft lbs of Kenetic Energy.
That sounds about right to me as well Tye, and that's plenty of KE. Did you notice any noise reduction when shooting the heavy bolts versus the 22 series carbons?

I never did shoot Carbons. I've shot Aluminums from the start.

TYE · Post by **TYE** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:19 pm

striper wrote:DesertRat hit it on the head. Get the bolt there fast! I shoot a 385 grain bolt -broadhead combination on my Exocet (395 FPS) and have not had one jump the string. I DO limit myself to about 30 yards max shot distance. Striper

Don't you mean 295 fps