Wisconsin Bowhunters association WBA

[TPM]

Well crabby your good at it.

That was my point.

[chris4570]

So there is no real good reason why there is an age limit associated with the use of a crossbow in Wisconsin, after all a crossbow only puts you at par with a vert bow. No real advantage is what you are saying.

Wisconsin law allows seniors over 65 and handicapped individuals the use of crossbows within the archery deer season as a way of offering them a weapon with superior atributes so that they may to participate on par with the able bodied. It is a great thing for the seniors and the handicapped to allow the use of something such as a crossbow.

Rancid, please do tell what "superior atributes" crossbows have, that you have personally experienced while hunting. Did the crossbow allow you to get within 20 yards? Did the crossbow give you the know how to identify scrapes, rubs, and how to hunt them? Is the crossbow more accurate? Shoot faster??? What is it that makes it "superior"?

You tell me.

And if there is the off chance that the crossbow is superior-boo hoo!!! Yeah that's right BOO HOOO!!!! You made a choice with which you hunt. As did I.

The deer,or other game, are not yours nor mine.

[secret]

They allow inline muzzleloaders[one shot slug guns] and they wont allow crossbows? make perfect sense right? Ohio is a prime example why it really dosnt matter what weapon you use........ and there is still the biggest bucks running around!!!!!!!mmmmmmmmmmmmmm sounds like a inferiority complex to me!!!!

[chris4570]

Rancid, please do tell what "superior atributes" crossbows have, that you have personally experienced while hunting.

Gladly but since I cannot legally hunt with a crossbow in WI during the archery deer season I will explain it in terms of assisting my 74 year old father on his deer hunts as I do his sighting and bolt building and cocking. While I own and shoot crossbows and have for some time, I have not fired a bolt at game but have been party to my father’s hunts and harvests. I like to his calling and rattling for him during the rut. The answer is the ability of not having to draw and hold back a bow at the time of the shot while in close quarters with your prey.

Did the crossbow allow you to get within 20 yards? Did the crossbow give you the know how to identify scrapes, rubs, and how to hunt them?

No. You are discussing woodsmanship. That is another subject altogether. Woodsmanship in not specific to a weapon choice and can even apply to cameras or game watching.

Is the crossbow more accurate? Shoot faster???

Yes, certainly. Once sighted in myself, my father and even my young son can hit the same spot with the same Horton. Accuracy is a function of the weapon. Placed in a shooting vise that I use for firearms. Even my young niece can pull the trigger of my Father’s Horton that is pointed at the bullseye and hit the target dead on because it is sighted in. I have handed my longbow to many people and have never had a person hit the mark on the very first try and in some cases, the person could not draw it back.

You asked if the crossbow is faster. The answer is yes and no because “Faster” is a relative term. My Father’s Horton is head and shoulders faster than my longbow. The 412 FPS of the PSA Tac 15 is much faster than most bow made today. At the same time many crossbows can shoot the same speed an some bows. I think it is safe to say that some 2010 bows will shoot faster than my Fathers Horton crossbow so in the hunting situations I have been party to that involved a crossbow, My Fathers crossbow is faster but compared to some bows it is slower.

What is it that makes it "superior"?

Being cocked and not having to draw and hold it back in the presence of game in close quarters. The superiority comes prior to the broadhead striking the animal and is why the crossbow is allowed for the elderly and handicapped in WI. (and other states). While you may not want to hear this, I think it important to this discussion.

One of the main challenges that makes bowhunting what it is is getting away with the draw and pulling a bow to it's peak weight with only human power while game stands very near. this is what appeals to me and why I enjoy the challenge of bowhunting. WI already has a season for shoulder fired, cocked, scoped, weapons in which I can point, click off the safety, look through the scope and flex my index finger resting in a trigger guard in order to take a shot. I enjoy that season for what it is but bowhunting is the challenge I am looking for. The other season is for filling the freezer with as little effort as possible. In order to increase the challenge of a shoulder fired season, I try to get especially close to the prey (Woodsmanship) and now I have taken to using a 50 year old, restored, bolt action shotgun with only a front bead.

Most of the deer I have harvested with a bow have been 10 yards or less and the furthest was 18 yards. I pride myself on getting close and view bowhutning as getting as close as I can to maximize harvest potential. That challenge and being in such close quarters means the draw often times will separate success from failure. I like to use a homemade bow, homemade arrows, homemade broadheads, homemade finger tab and other homemade items because I want bowhunting to be as hard (read challenging) as possible.

The effort and practice make harvesting a deer a great reward that provides a great deal of satisfaction and a sense of accomplishment. The joy is in the doing. I do not seek to make bowhunting as easy and effortless as I can. I have the gun season for that. If somebody in another state wants to use a crossbow to harvest a deer and it's legal there, God bless em. I think they would better enjoy the challenge of close quarters bowhunting and all that goes into it but in todays day, there are few who want that and most hope to get a deer with as little effort as they can. Crossbows are perfect for that. That is why in WI, the elderly and handcapped are able to use a crossbow. WI allows those folks the superior advantages of the crossbow to compensate for their lack of physical ability to use a bow. I applaud that law and even have a 74 year old father that takes advantage of that law. A crossbow will not replace woodsmanship but it does allow those unable to hunt with a bow the advantage of not having to draw and hold a bow in close quarters to prey.

You will want to know that everything I described about getting away with the draw with game in close quarters is the same for a compound archer. If an archers compound is set at 70 pounds, he must pull back all 70 pounds with only the muscles of his hands, arms, back, ect. with all the motion required of an archer using a recurve or longbow. His advantage is in the last inch of draw (once he has drawn past the peak weight of 70 pounds) allows a reduced holding weight but he still pulled the weight and the required motion in close quarters in order to even have an opportunity to release his arrow. The crossbow shooter avoids the most difficult aspects of drawing and shooting game with a bow.

And if there is the off chance that the crossbow is superior-boo hoo!!! Yeah that's right BOO HOOO!!!! You made a choice with which you hunt. As did I.

It is not an off chance. It is the reason why the elderly and handicapped are allowed the use of a crossbow in WI. You are correct however. I made a choice to use a bow. It is not legal for me to use a crossbow in Wi so the boo hoo is not applicable to WI and frankly not the sort of adult coinversation I would have hoped for..

The deer,or other game, are not yours nor mine.

I agree and you will find I never claimed they were and that that is outside the scope of this discussion.

You try to appear to be smart but your answers actually contradict that.

You seemed to pick apart my response so let's do the same, shall we???

You may have never claimed the game you seek were more yours than mine. That in itself says "X"(sound effect as seen on a game show). You say that this is outside of this discussion. I disagree. If you weren't so afraid of someone with lesser skills(sarcasm) harvesting your deer you wouldn't have an arguement.

Give me a break, adult conversation. BOO HOOO again!! If you had the choice, judging by your responses you still wouldn't choose a crossbow. That makes it YOUR choice. Live with it. Deal with it.

Allowing the elderly or those physically challenged to hunt....makes the crossbow superior?? That's what you said.

Apparently bowhunting, for you, needs to be as challenging as possible. I make my own treestands. And treesteps. Does that make it more challenging for me. No. That makes me cheap. Or challenging if you wish. Homemade is homemade right???

The most difficult aspect of hunting is the drawing of the bow?? really?? I would have thought the countless hours scouting and figuring out the mature bucks patterns were the most difficult. Then setting up within bows(crossbow or otherwise) range. Convincing that buck to come out before the sun sets. Heading him off before he beds for the day. That is hunting. Not homemade this or homemade that.

You are right!!!! A crossbow does not replace woodsmanship. And that, my friend, is what differientiates a hunter from a shooter. Doesn't it? Seems like we are on the same page, you just haven't realized it yet. My longest shot at a deer with a crossbow( yours was 18) 20 yards. My closest was 7 yards. Oh I've been closer, and not shot. Close enough to club them over the head, while on the ground. But, heck, I'm a crossbow hunter. Easy.

You want bowhunting to be as hard as possible. Really??? Close your eyes. How hard is it now? Very poor arguement. Don't wear camo. Shower in the most fragrant shampoo and soap you can find. Only hunt from the ground.

So I am correct. You have never personnally hunted or harvested a game animal with a crossbow. That makes your opinions based upon feelings not fact.

Again your arguement is nullified by your own response. Your neice can hit the target dead on,with a crossbow in a vice. But not so with a hand held bow. That doesn't make the crossbow more accurate. Let her shoot the crossbow off hand. Or shoot the vert bow in a vice. Is that what you base your accuracy on. Your neice? One person?

Bow season is not for filling the freezer? What is it for?

[NSIan]

Accuracy is a function of the weapon. Placed in a shooting vise that I use for firearms. Even my young niece can pull the trigger of my Father’s Horton that is pointed at the bullseye and hit the target dead on because it is sighted in. I have handed my longbow to many people and have never had a person hit the mark on the very first try and in some cases, the person could not draw it back.

You are joking right, rancid?? Pretty pathetic argument, comparing a crossbow locked into a shooting vice to a homemade longbow. You are comparing a professionally engineered piece of quipment locked into another engineered marvel holding it in a stationary position, already drawn back, already sighted in, to a tree branch with a string on it??

Give me a break!!

Hows the accuracy when you pass that crossbow to your neice, allowing her to shoot freehand? Can your neice draw back and cock the crossbow on her own?
Any idea how many crossbow hunters in Wisconsin utilize a shooting vice while on stand?
You have to draw back your fathers crossbow? Why can't he do it himself? Who sighted it in? Superior weapon??

I see you are now rambling on about lazy crossbow hunters. Nice spin. I think thats play #3 from the NABC. I hope in your arrogance you realize you label all hunters as lazy when you suggest only those that build a bow and arrow are real hunters.
Although you may think your arguements hold water, in fact they do not.
Shooting a bow is not that hard rancid. I don't need a 500 word essay to convey that message. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows its not very difficult. Anyone with a desire to shoot sticks with feathers can pick up a longbow, a recurve, a compound or a crossbow and give it a whirl. Each piece of equipment offers its own unique challenges. Each piece of equipment has its own learning curve. But at the end of the day, its not hard!

90% hunter, 10% instrument......

I pegged you for a know-it-all rancid, but lately you dissapoint me. You, like all other anti-crossbow grown-ups, seem to follow the talking points too the letter, from NABC. I expected more from you. I anticipated a new series of tactics and a whole bunch of different anti-crossbow arguements, but as of late, you have been a big let-down.
Ohh, hows the lobbyist doing?
As was stated here, and what appears to be a common theme on alot of other forums, your negative, anti-crossbow comments are not welcome. I would suggest you refrain from cheap shots, and insults.(Are you drunk?)
As with alot of the other crossbow forums, you will be removed from this one as well if it continues.
The Crossbow Nation crew sends their regards, Archer.

[Island Hunter]

Yes crab, you have overstayed your welcome. Now do like a tree and leave. No one here wants to hear anything you have to say.

[Island Hunter]

It´s about time, see you, wouldn´t want to be you.

[NSIan]

and that it in fact hit a home run

Actually rancid ol' buddy, you struck out!
You didn't connect!
You kept swinging, but you missed!
The game is over and you lost!

Clearly, fingers are planted firmly in the ears while a chorus of la la la la plays in the background.

Ignorance is bliss, eh ol' buddy????

I have seen little here to cause concern.

You dropped by to this forum and in typical anti-crossbow fashion you tried to push your agenda on a bunch of pro crossbow folks that really do not care about boundaries, or states, or provinces. This forum is provided by a crossbow manufacturer for the enjoyment of its users. No evil plans and plots to overthrow the entire bowhunting community, no schemes or tactics being hatched, and no secret hand shakes among members.

No one here buys your arguement. You have not proved anything, except the WBH and the 3% will stay as it is.
More importantly, you have done a disservice for your Corporation and all the bowhunters in Wisconsin. Its kinda fun pushing your buttons, and I do hope these few topics stay active as it will entertain many that drop by. The readers will understand the arrogance of the WBH, and will tell their friends out in the hunting community. Word travels fast on the internet. Keep spreading your hate, and anger towards the fastest growing sport in North America.

The Pro-Crossbow movement thanks you and the WBH for your time!

[NSIan]

Entertaining to say the least!!

Whats evan funnier is no one is laughing with you, but AT you!!

Ohh, and you might want to slow down and take a deep breath when pounding on the keyboard, your spelling is getting pretty bad.

[Limbs and Sticks]

Now this is funny, recognize your friends king weasel

[Island Hunter]

Ranchy Crab, you need to do like cow s%&t and hit the trail. I think I hear your mommy calling you. You need to quit playing on that computer, little boy.

[Raymond]

Their BS may work for a while but it will not continue forever. When the voters open their eyes, they will see the truth. WBH members will be shown just what they are.
I have sold a great many Excalibur Crossbows to Vertical Bow Hunters who said, and I quote, " I will never buy or hunt with a Crossbow". And a great deal of these Powerful Bow Hunters have bought Excalibur Crossbows from me. Within a matter of weeks after stating that and after seeing what a great Archery Bow the Crossbows are.
So as for the WBH controlling things, it will not last forever. Let one of their powerful Vertical Bow Hunters become unable to hunt with their Vertical Bow and boy watch out for the rush to buy a MAGNIFICENT ARCHERY BOW, THE CROSSBOW. Most likely they will be buying an Excalibur. This is no BS. I have witnessed this in front of my own eyes. The first one will probably be Rancid, LOL.
Raymond