Well, i certainly wouldn't take a shot at game out to that distance. Or even half that distance!
Sounds like that dealer was confusing FITA equipment with hunting equipment. 90 meters is a common distance for FITA tournaments.
Wouldn't it be interesting to see Excaliburs in FITA tournaments.
Afterall, they are recurves!
The only issue i would have is giving-up the camo pattern for the all white attire.
Info. on crossbow yards
Moderator: Excalibur Marketing Dude
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MichiganBill
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:54 pm
That is dumb
I dont take a 100 yard shot using my SHOTGUN using a slug and rifled barrel, let alone a crossbow 70 yards max with my gun; 25 yards max with my crossbow.
It's not that the bow can't reach 100 yards. It's the fact that it is a totally unethical shot and should never be attempted. That merchant is full of crap.
One other reason not to take extrordinarily long shots is that it could cost you lots of money.
At our camp, we have 2 rules that are strictly enforced.
The first is, all bucks must have at least 4 points on one side. If you kill one with less, you pay a "camp fine" of $300. This pretty much assures that bucks stay around to age 2.5 and beyond. The second rule is, if you shoot a male deer of any size, including button buck, you buy dinner for any/all in camp that night at the local pub. That bill can also run into the hundreds so, you really have to want a male deer.
Well, last year, one guy at camp took what I consider a foolish shot at a buck with his ExoMax. I paced it off later at 65 yards. The fellow was guest and I know he saw antlers and got "buck fever" and made a the shot regardless. Fortunately, the bow did its job and the deer died on the spot.
Upon closer inspection, it turned out to be a six point, as that could not be determined at 65 yards (duh!).
So, he paid his $300 'camp fine' but not without a lot of screaming and kicking AND he paid for dinner and drinks that night for all 7 of us in camp that night. Bill came to about $250 (I like good wine). The next day, I told him what I thought of his "miracle shot" (as he called it) and he packed his stuff and went home.
This year, I did not invite him up to my camp. No more "miracle shots" and no more idiots.
It's not that the bow can't reach 100 yards. It's the fact that it is a totally unethical shot and should never be attempted. That merchant is full of crap.
One other reason not to take extrordinarily long shots is that it could cost you lots of money.
At our camp, we have 2 rules that are strictly enforced.
The first is, all bucks must have at least 4 points on one side. If you kill one with less, you pay a "camp fine" of $300. This pretty much assures that bucks stay around to age 2.5 and beyond. The second rule is, if you shoot a male deer of any size, including button buck, you buy dinner for any/all in camp that night at the local pub. That bill can also run into the hundreds so, you really have to want a male deer.
Well, last year, one guy at camp took what I consider a foolish shot at a buck with his ExoMax. I paced it off later at 65 yards. The fellow was guest and I know he saw antlers and got "buck fever" and made a the shot regardless. Fortunately, the bow did its job and the deer died on the spot.
Upon closer inspection, it turned out to be a six point, as that could not be determined at 65 yards (duh!).
So, he paid his $300 'camp fine' but not without a lot of screaming and kicking AND he paid for dinner and drinks that night for all 7 of us in camp that night. Bill came to about $250 (I like good wine). The next day, I told him what I thought of his "miracle shot" (as he called it) and he packed his stuff and went home.
This year, I did not invite him up to my camp. No more "miracle shots" and no more idiots.
I was going to start a new post, but what the heck.
Between Xmas and New Year's I was at a local archery shop, and there were just myself and the clerk. We started yaking about Xbows then went onto compound bows. One of my questions to him was what the max. shot for a high tech bow would be. He took out a Bow Tech compound out of its case, nocked an arrow, shot it down the 20 yard range, turned to me and said, no problem, good for at least 50-60 yards. I said "really". He said, "oh ya, one guy here in the club, consistantly practices out to 100 yards. He's the best shot here". " heck this past hunting season he shot a bull moose at 122 yards, penetration of about 18". When I heard this, my mouth dropped open, "WHAT", a 122 yards, "is he crazy". "oh no, he practices daily". "I said I don't care, there's always windage to worry about."
So there you go, no wonder there's wounded game in the bush, with arrogant idiots like this. He may have gotten away with this one, but how many has he missed? The more technology is put into bows, the longer shots a hunter thinks he can take.
You may think the clerk is bullshitting, but he sounded dead serious. I want to go back to this archery shop, hopefully meet deadeye himself, to have some choice words.
Grey Owl
Between Xmas and New Year's I was at a local archery shop, and there were just myself and the clerk. We started yaking about Xbows then went onto compound bows. One of my questions to him was what the max. shot for a high tech bow would be. He took out a Bow Tech compound out of its case, nocked an arrow, shot it down the 20 yard range, turned to me and said, no problem, good for at least 50-60 yards. I said "really". He said, "oh ya, one guy here in the club, consistantly practices out to 100 yards. He's the best shot here". " heck this past hunting season he shot a bull moose at 122 yards, penetration of about 18". When I heard this, my mouth dropped open, "WHAT", a 122 yards, "is he crazy". "oh no, he practices daily". "I said I don't care, there's always windage to worry about."
So there you go, no wonder there's wounded game in the bush, with arrogant idiots like this. He may have gotten away with this one, but how many has he missed? The more technology is put into bows, the longer shots a hunter thinks he can take.
You may think the clerk is bullshitting, but he sounded dead serious. I want to go back to this archery shop, hopefully meet deadeye himself, to have some choice words.
Grey Owl
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Young Buck
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 1:36 pm
- Location: Pembroke, On
Crossbow Hunting
I hunt with a excalibur paradox with the 175 pound draw weight. The sights the came standard on the bow wasn't good enough for me so i made new sight mounts and put different pins on them. I was target shooting in a sand pit behind the house. i started shooting at 30 yards and continued backing up. i was shooting at a target 24 inches by 24 inches. at the end of my shooting sight in was hitting the target from a 100 yards. At 90 yards the arrow was stuck in the sand the same distance as at 30 yards.
when i was looking to purchase the x-bow one dealer told me that you could drop deer at 90 yards. But other dealers told me not to try at anything farther than 60 yards. This past year i shoot a nine point buck at 50 yards and it went down no trouble.
when i was looking to purchase the x-bow one dealer told me that you could drop deer at 90 yards. But other dealers told me not to try at anything farther than 60 yards. This past year i shoot a nine point buck at 50 yards and it went down no trouble.
Re: Crossbow Hunting
I see your point and have tried to see how far my exomag can go as well. But on this site i wouldn't talk about shooting a deer at 50 yards. Regardless if it went down without a problem. Some guys on here will get on you in a hurry. By the way congrats on the nine pointer!!!Young Buck wrote:I hunt with a excalibur paradox with the 175 pound draw weight. The sights the came standard on the bow wasn't good enough for me so i made new sight mounts and put different pins on them. I was target shooting in a sand pit behind the house. i started shooting at 30 yards and continued backing up. i was shooting at a target 24 inches by 24 inches. at the end of my shooting sight in was hitting the target from a 100 yards. At 90 yards the arrow was stuck in the sand the same distance as at 30 yards.
when i was looking to purchase the x-bow one dealer told me that you could drop deer at 90 yards. But other dealers told me not to try at anything farther than 60 yards. This past year i shoot a nine point buck at 50 yards and it went down no trouble.
Welcome, Young Buck, to the forum.
I hope no one "gets on" you, because that likely just would offend you and that serves no useful purpose.
If anyone were to question the wisdom of your shooting--not the skill--it would be that there is too great a risk of wounding and losing your game when you shoot at that distance.
A deer or elk or moose would hear the sound of your shot and/or the sound of the approaching bolt before the bolt gets to the deer. The animal may duck at the sound. If it does, you may be lucky and miss the animal entirely. If you aren't lucky, neither will your quarry be lucky: you will hit it, but not make a clean kill. The animal may evade you entirely and recover after needless suffering. It may die a slow painfull death and simply be wasted.
If you are shooting much past 30 yards there is a much greater chance of the animal trying to evade the bolt and being partly successfull. In other words, getting wounded. Close up, it doesn't have the same opportunity to react before it is hit by the bolt.
Even if the deer doesn't hear the shot or the sound of the approaching bolt, at 90 yards it could simply decide to step ahead, grazing. They do that quite often when they graze, and there is no way of predicting when that will happen. That will likely result in a wounded animal.
At that distance, a puff of wind will deflect a bolt from the safe, clean, kill zone, to a slow and painfull death.
We owe better treatment to the game we hunt. It's OK to target at that distance, because the consequence of a poor shot is merely a lost bolt.
I hope no one "gets on" you, because that likely just would offend you and that serves no useful purpose.
If anyone were to question the wisdom of your shooting--not the skill--it would be that there is too great a risk of wounding and losing your game when you shoot at that distance.
A deer or elk or moose would hear the sound of your shot and/or the sound of the approaching bolt before the bolt gets to the deer. The animal may duck at the sound. If it does, you may be lucky and miss the animal entirely. If you aren't lucky, neither will your quarry be lucky: you will hit it, but not make a clean kill. The animal may evade you entirely and recover after needless suffering. It may die a slow painfull death and simply be wasted.
If you are shooting much past 30 yards there is a much greater chance of the animal trying to evade the bolt and being partly successfull. In other words, getting wounded. Close up, it doesn't have the same opportunity to react before it is hit by the bolt.
Even if the deer doesn't hear the shot or the sound of the approaching bolt, at 90 yards it could simply decide to step ahead, grazing. They do that quite often when they graze, and there is no way of predicting when that will happen. That will likely result in a wounded animal.
At that distance, a puff of wind will deflect a bolt from the safe, clean, kill zone, to a slow and painfull death.
We owe better treatment to the game we hunt. It's OK to target at that distance, because the consequence of a poor shot is merely a lost bolt.
"Gun Control Laws"--trying to nag criminals into submission.
Wade
I think there are a lot of uninformed assumptions made because of the potential accuracy of a crossbow at extreme ranges and the retained energy at long ranges. What they don't consider is getting the arrow "there" and the lag/flight time of the arrow. That rainbow trajectory comes into play also.
My boy has a 200 pound crossbow. He has 460 grain arrows going through the chrono an average 308 fps at 50 yards. The ballistic calculator says that would be 285 fps, 83 ft lbs of KE, and .590 SS of momentum at 100 yards, and the lag time would be 1.1 seconds. Better than about any vertical bow out of the bow. A whitetail deer could easily take one or two steps in 1.1 second and turn a heart/lung shot into a gut shot. However, to test shoot at 100 yards we had to shim the rear scope mount because the trajectory was so rainbow that there was not enough scope adjustment to zero at 100 yards. With the shims, there was not enough scope adjustment to shoot less than 70 yards.
I have an old Herters double bench rest. The front unit weighs in the 40 pound range, and has michromoter adjustments for windage and elevation. The rear unit weighs 20 something and has michromoter adjustment for elevation. If we took well relaxed shots, wind when and where we wanted, lighting the way we wanted, all the time in the world to pull the trigger after a breathing exersize, we could shoot 6 inch 100 yard groups, sometimes better. You do not have that equipment and discipline in actual hunting conditions so the fact that it can be done doesn't actually apply in the real world.
I have to shoot sitting so my handicap may well be an accuracy blessing. I always have my left arm braced and my bow level in my hand. I can pull the trigger slowly and very smoothely. In my real world shooting, I can keep a tight heart/lung group at 40 yards. In 51 years of hunting feral hogs and whitetail deer, I have taken, and made, only 5 shots over 40 yards.
I think there are a lot of uninformed assumptions made because of the potential accuracy of a crossbow at extreme ranges and the retained energy at long ranges. What they don't consider is getting the arrow "there" and the lag/flight time of the arrow. That rainbow trajectory comes into play also.
My boy has a 200 pound crossbow. He has 460 grain arrows going through the chrono an average 308 fps at 50 yards. The ballistic calculator says that would be 285 fps, 83 ft lbs of KE, and .590 SS of momentum at 100 yards, and the lag time would be 1.1 seconds. Better than about any vertical bow out of the bow. A whitetail deer could easily take one or two steps in 1.1 second and turn a heart/lung shot into a gut shot. However, to test shoot at 100 yards we had to shim the rear scope mount because the trajectory was so rainbow that there was not enough scope adjustment to zero at 100 yards. With the shims, there was not enough scope adjustment to shoot less than 70 yards.
I have an old Herters double bench rest. The front unit weighs in the 40 pound range, and has michromoter adjustments for windage and elevation. The rear unit weighs 20 something and has michromoter adjustment for elevation. If we took well relaxed shots, wind when and where we wanted, lighting the way we wanted, all the time in the world to pull the trigger after a breathing exersize, we could shoot 6 inch 100 yard groups, sometimes better. You do not have that equipment and discipline in actual hunting conditions so the fact that it can be done doesn't actually apply in the real world.
I have to shoot sitting so my handicap may well be an accuracy blessing. I always have my left arm braced and my bow level in my hand. I can pull the trigger slowly and very smoothely. In my real world shooting, I can keep a tight heart/lung group at 40 yards. In 51 years of hunting feral hogs and whitetail deer, I have taken, and made, only 5 shots over 40 yards.
I never was as good as I used to be.