bstout, I agree, minerals are in the dirt.
kk
I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, cause I'm by far not a biologist nor an earth/dirt "expert". And I'm sure you could probably teach me a few things when it comes to agriculture. After all, you do have 35 years of experience in agricuture. All I know is, after 6 or 7 years of planting food plots, and over 10 years of putting out licks, I've definitely seen a difference in the antler growth on the bucks and a healthier herd all together. That said, what I'm doing seems to be working just fine. I've been catching more and more big racked bucks on my trail cams, and I've also harvested three Ontario Record Book bucks back to back for three years in a row for the three past seasons, with one of them making Pope & Young as it was harvested with my compound, and not the crossbow. I must be doing something right, woudn't you say?
P.S. I do have a Bio-Logic ph gauge ( for soil samples), and before I start a plot I always take a soil sample to see what it's lacking so that it can be added.
Salt Licks for Deer
Moderator: Excalibur Marketing Dude
Lonewolf,
Man you are definitely headed in the right direction. Soil tests are excellent for the food plot. Now go take a test in the forest where there is a good concentration of mast (wild apples, nut, berries) and see what the results show. Use this browse area just like a food plot. I did this with a black berry patch. The location was an old logging landing that had been taken over by the berries. I was hunting in Tenn. With realtives and any time between around Nov. 15, depending on when the first frost hits and kills most of the forbes, the raspberry and black berry leaves act like a magnet as they are still green. By providing some P and K to the patch in spring I gave them a good shot of winter hardiness. (K provides the roots with elastic qualities to stretch and retract without breaking as the ground freezes and thaws.) The healthy berry leaves drew a nice doe as the sun was coming up. She was enjoying the snack as she headed back to her bedding area. About 15 minutes later a nice buck stopped by for a munch as well. I shot the buck (270 rifle) he ran about 30 yards and dropped. She stood there contentedly eating the black berry leaves without a care in the world. She stayed until she was full. All the commotion the buck made did not deter her one bit. I really belief the palatability of the leaves was greater due to the increased sugar provided by the extended photosynthetic process of the healthier patch.
In the fields I use a refractometer to measure the sugar levels of various field crops. It is an excellent indicator of how well the crops are doing. I applied these same techniques of "production" to areas in the forest producing mast. My best xbow deer in Ontario is a 14 point 161 taken on the farm, I mentioned earlier, with the sheep.
Good luck on your great string of big boys.
Man you are definitely headed in the right direction. Soil tests are excellent for the food plot. Now go take a test in the forest where there is a good concentration of mast (wild apples, nut, berries) and see what the results show. Use this browse area just like a food plot. I did this with a black berry patch. The location was an old logging landing that had been taken over by the berries. I was hunting in Tenn. With realtives and any time between around Nov. 15, depending on when the first frost hits and kills most of the forbes, the raspberry and black berry leaves act like a magnet as they are still green. By providing some P and K to the patch in spring I gave them a good shot of winter hardiness. (K provides the roots with elastic qualities to stretch and retract without breaking as the ground freezes and thaws.) The healthy berry leaves drew a nice doe as the sun was coming up. She was enjoying the snack as she headed back to her bedding area. About 15 minutes later a nice buck stopped by for a munch as well. I shot the buck (270 rifle) he ran about 30 yards and dropped. She stood there contentedly eating the black berry leaves without a care in the world. She stayed until she was full. All the commotion the buck made did not deter her one bit. I really belief the palatability of the leaves was greater due to the increased sugar provided by the extended photosynthetic process of the healthier patch.
In the fields I use a refractometer to measure the sugar levels of various field crops. It is an excellent indicator of how well the crops are doing. I applied these same techniques of "production" to areas in the forest producing mast. My best xbow deer in Ontario is a 14 point 161 taken on the farm, I mentioned earlier, with the sheep.
Good luck on your great string of big boys.
The only ex who has a piece of my heart is Excalibur
Around here, the logging companies spray something on the roads to cut down on the dust and help with erosion. It's somewhat vicous and has kind of a sweet smell, but I have know idea what's in it...all I do know is, deer come for miles to lick the roads. I've seen deer lick a hole in the road to the point where they look like a bunch of ostrich out there with their heads buried in the sand. 
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The two keys to a succesfull life-
"PASSION" and "COMPASSION" !!!
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The two keys to a succesfull life-
"PASSION" and "COMPASSION" !!!
Sidekick,
It is probably CaCl in an impure state. This means it has many other kinds of salts in it also. The more pure it is the more expensive it is. Food Grade is the high quality stuff and used only for food products. Again table salt is NaCl but ingredient salts for manufacturing thousands of other products are frequently other types of salts. A great and fascinating book to read is the History of Salt. It sounds dull but is far from it. Only 150 years ago it was one of the most valuable commodities on Earth. The salts were nearly all manufactured using an evaporation system for either sea water (still used today in the Dead Sea region and still loaded with impurities) or shafts drop into salt deposits where water was poured down the shaft and brine hauled. Each area of the world manufactured different types and colors of salt. The English word "wich" like in the name Norwich is the Celtic word for "place of salt". The towns carrying this term as part of their name reflect their history as salt manufacturing locations. In the 1600's in North America during the measuring of salt for a customer, no one was allowed to even walk across the room for fear of disturbing the scales of this very necessary and expensive product. It was not until the discovery of salt in northern New York state (Cayuga) (forgive my spelling) that things began to change. Here salt was discovered to reside not very far below the surface. Brine operations began as it further explorations as to the direction and size of the salt vein. It turned out to be one of the largest salt discoveries in the world. The vein so fast it extended from northern New York state to east shore of Lake Huron. In fact the world was changed. Direct mining of salt began in vast quantities and still continues under Lake Huron with 100's of kilometers of salt dome tunnels. The salt no longer had to be brined and evaporated. Cost plunged to become so inexpensive as to be "as common as salt." China was the leader in shaft and evaporation techniques for pumping the brine. When be were so proud to have drilled and pumped oil from a depth of less than 100 feet, China as already 20 times deeper in Zagong at its pumping operations for salt. Zagong has fallen from favor during the past 100 years. I hope I will see it before to many more years.
bstout:
The road salt and salt blocks return to a brine state when it rains. The salt brine soaks into the soil where the salt attaches to the soil particles. Once the light electrical bond is established between the soil particle and the salt, it is difficult to break. However, it will leach out of the soil over time. The deer are consuming the soil (mud) as that is what the salt is attached to. Deer have not figured out how to build fires and evaporate the salt so they do not have to eat the dirt. They do not much care if they have to eat a little dirt to get to the salt. With out these salts all creatures on this planet would not survive long. Salts assist in establishing an electrolyte balance in the blood as well as contribute to an entire host of other functions in the body.
I hope this helps everyone understand a little more about salt and the need we all have for it.
It is probably CaCl in an impure state. This means it has many other kinds of salts in it also. The more pure it is the more expensive it is. Food Grade is the high quality stuff and used only for food products. Again table salt is NaCl but ingredient salts for manufacturing thousands of other products are frequently other types of salts. A great and fascinating book to read is the History of Salt. It sounds dull but is far from it. Only 150 years ago it was one of the most valuable commodities on Earth. The salts were nearly all manufactured using an evaporation system for either sea water (still used today in the Dead Sea region and still loaded with impurities) or shafts drop into salt deposits where water was poured down the shaft and brine hauled. Each area of the world manufactured different types and colors of salt. The English word "wich" like in the name Norwich is the Celtic word for "place of salt". The towns carrying this term as part of their name reflect their history as salt manufacturing locations. In the 1600's in North America during the measuring of salt for a customer, no one was allowed to even walk across the room for fear of disturbing the scales of this very necessary and expensive product. It was not until the discovery of salt in northern New York state (Cayuga) (forgive my spelling) that things began to change. Here salt was discovered to reside not very far below the surface. Brine operations began as it further explorations as to the direction and size of the salt vein. It turned out to be one of the largest salt discoveries in the world. The vein so fast it extended from northern New York state to east shore of Lake Huron. In fact the world was changed. Direct mining of salt began in vast quantities and still continues under Lake Huron with 100's of kilometers of salt dome tunnels. The salt no longer had to be brined and evaporated. Cost plunged to become so inexpensive as to be "as common as salt." China was the leader in shaft and evaporation techniques for pumping the brine. When be were so proud to have drilled and pumped oil from a depth of less than 100 feet, China as already 20 times deeper in Zagong at its pumping operations for salt. Zagong has fallen from favor during the past 100 years. I hope I will see it before to many more years.
bstout:
The road salt and salt blocks return to a brine state when it rains. The salt brine soaks into the soil where the salt attaches to the soil particles. Once the light electrical bond is established between the soil particle and the salt, it is difficult to break. However, it will leach out of the soil over time. The deer are consuming the soil (mud) as that is what the salt is attached to. Deer have not figured out how to build fires and evaporate the salt so they do not have to eat the dirt. They do not much care if they have to eat a little dirt to get to the salt. With out these salts all creatures on this planet would not survive long. Salts assist in establishing an electrolyte balance in the blood as well as contribute to an entire host of other functions in the body.
I hope this helps everyone understand a little more about salt and the need we all have for it.
The only ex who has a piece of my heart is Excalibur
Sidekick,
It is probably CaCl in an impure state. This means it has many other kinds of salts in it also. The more pure it is the more expensive it is. Food Grade is the high quality stuff and used only for food products. Again table salt is NaCl but ingredient salts for manufacturing thousands of other products are frequently other types of salts. A great and fascinating book to read is the History of Salt. It sounds dull but is far from it. Only 150 years ago it was one of the most valuable commodities on Earth. The salts were nearly all manufactured using an evaporation system for either sea water (still used today in the Dead Sea region and still loaded with impurities) or shafts drop into salt deposits where water was poured down the shaft and brine hauled. Each area of the world manufactured different types and colors of salt. The English word "wich" like in the name Norwich is the Celtic word for "place of salt". The towns carrying this term as part of their name reflect their history as salt manufacturing locations. In the 1600's in North America during the measuring of salt for a customer, no one was allowed to even walk across the room for fear of disturbing the scales of this very necessary and expensive product. It was not until the discovery of salt in northern New York state (Cayuga) (forgive my spelling) that things began to change. Here salt was discovered to reside not very far below the surface. Brine operations began as it further explorations as to the direction and size of the salt vein. It turned out to be one of the largest salt discoveries in the world. The vein so fast it extended from northern New York state to east shore of Lake Huron. In fact the world was changed. Direct mining of salt began in vast quantities and still continues under Lake Huron with 100's of kilometers of salt dome tunnels. The salt no longer had to be brined and evaporated. Cost plunged to become so inexpensive as to be "as common as salt." China was the leader in shaft and evaporation techniques for pumping the brine. When be were so proud to have drilled and pumped oil from a depth of less than 100 feet, China as already 20 times deeper in Zagong at its pumping operations for salt. Zagong has fallen from favor during the past 100 years. I hope I will see it before to many more years.
bstout:
The road salt and salt blocks return to a brine state when it rains. The salt brine soaks into the soil where the salt attaches to the soil particles. Once the light electrical bond is established between the soil particle and the salt, it is difficult to break. However, it will leach out of the soil over time. The deer are consuming the soil (mud) as that is what the salt is attached to. Deer have not figured out how to build fires and evaporate the salt so they do not have to eat the dirt. They do not much care if they have to eat a little dirt to get to the salt. With out these salts all creatures on this planet would not survive long. Salts assist in establishing an electrolyte balance in the blood as well as contribute to an entire host of other functions in the body.
I hope this helps everyone understand a little more about salt and the need we all have for it.
It is probably CaCl in an impure state. This means it has many other kinds of salts in it also. The more pure it is the more expensive it is. Food Grade is the high quality stuff and used only for food products. Again table salt is NaCl but ingredient salts for manufacturing thousands of other products are frequently other types of salts. A great and fascinating book to read is the History of Salt. It sounds dull but is far from it. Only 150 years ago it was one of the most valuable commodities on Earth. The salts were nearly all manufactured using an evaporation system for either sea water (still used today in the Dead Sea region and still loaded with impurities) or shafts drop into salt deposits where water was poured down the shaft and brine hauled. Each area of the world manufactured different types and colors of salt. The English word "wich" like in the name Norwich is the Celtic word for "place of salt". The towns carrying this term as part of their name reflect their history as salt manufacturing locations. In the 1600's in North America during the measuring of salt for a customer, no one was allowed to even walk across the room for fear of disturbing the scales of this very necessary and expensive product. It was not until the discovery of salt in northern New York state (Cayuga) (forgive my spelling) that things began to change. Here salt was discovered to reside not very far below the surface. Brine operations began as it further explorations as to the direction and size of the salt vein. It turned out to be one of the largest salt discoveries in the world. The vein so fast it extended from northern New York state to east shore of Lake Huron. In fact the world was changed. Direct mining of salt began in vast quantities and still continues under Lake Huron with 100's of kilometers of salt dome tunnels. The salt no longer had to be brined and evaporated. Cost plunged to become so inexpensive as to be "as common as salt." China was the leader in shaft and evaporation techniques for pumping the brine. When be were so proud to have drilled and pumped oil from a depth of less than 100 feet, China as already 20 times deeper in Zagong at its pumping operations for salt. Zagong has fallen from favor during the past 100 years. I hope I will see it before to many more years.
bstout:
The road salt and salt blocks return to a brine state when it rains. The salt brine soaks into the soil where the salt attaches to the soil particles. Once the light electrical bond is established between the soil particle and the salt, it is difficult to break. However, it will leach out of the soil over time. The deer are consuming the soil (mud) as that is what the salt is attached to. Deer have not figured out how to build fires and evaporate the salt so they do not have to eat the dirt. They do not much care if they have to eat a little dirt to get to the salt. With out these salts all creatures on this planet would not survive long. Salts assist in establishing an electrolyte balance in the blood as well as contribute to an entire host of other functions in the body.
I hope this helps everyone understand a little more about salt and the need we all have for it.
The only ex who has a piece of my heart is Excalibur
Yeah, There has been talk that Ontario is gonna outlaw feeding deer and this law will be in effect as of 2007, and maybe even as early as this year. Supposedly that law is going to apply for food plots as well because of the CWD issue. But what I don't understand is, what about the crop fields? they serve as food plots for deer to feed in. Surely they can't stop the farmers from growing their crops.
Ontario Trophy Bucks
bstout,
I think you are right on about where the deer choose to eat. I have seen "Touch Me Nots" other wise called Jewel Weed (spring loaded seeds that ripens in Sept.) with every single seed pod and top eaten off while it was still green. Sometimes this plant will occupy a space of 200ft x 200ft. Obviously more than one deer is hitting the plants. So I wonder how elimination of food plots will stop the congregation of deer.
I think the government folks have the idea if they stop the congregation of deer they will control the CWD. However, deer are social animals and they will always get together. The wildlife management folks are not looking at what causes CWD disease but rather how to prevent its spread. This will mean they will allow the conditions to continue to exist that cause the CWD to start. They need to take more of our money and apply it to research and isolate and identify the souce CWD (over population, stress factors, genetic predisposition, etc.).
People are beginning to understand Mad Cow Disease is a naturally occurring diseased based on a number of factor (most of them not yet identified). Once Mad Cow is in a herd there is a problem with the spreading of the disease. But to identify the source of Mad Cow and CWD is really at the root of the issue and the only long term solution. PETA should get its butt in gear and begin to fund or lobby for this type of research if they were really interested in humane treatment of animals and improving the conditions for wild and well as domestic animals. I would certainly show up to support and watch their nude bicycle rides (France two weeks ago) to support that kind of research. Any one want to join me at a strategic observation post?
I think you are right on about where the deer choose to eat. I have seen "Touch Me Nots" other wise called Jewel Weed (spring loaded seeds that ripens in Sept.) with every single seed pod and top eaten off while it was still green. Sometimes this plant will occupy a space of 200ft x 200ft. Obviously more than one deer is hitting the plants. So I wonder how elimination of food plots will stop the congregation of deer.
I think the government folks have the idea if they stop the congregation of deer they will control the CWD. However, deer are social animals and they will always get together. The wildlife management folks are not looking at what causes CWD disease but rather how to prevent its spread. This will mean they will allow the conditions to continue to exist that cause the CWD to start. They need to take more of our money and apply it to research and isolate and identify the souce CWD (over population, stress factors, genetic predisposition, etc.).
People are beginning to understand Mad Cow Disease is a naturally occurring diseased based on a number of factor (most of them not yet identified). Once Mad Cow is in a herd there is a problem with the spreading of the disease. But to identify the source of Mad Cow and CWD is really at the root of the issue and the only long term solution. PETA should get its butt in gear and begin to fund or lobby for this type of research if they were really interested in humane treatment of animals and improving the conditions for wild and well as domestic animals. I would certainly show up to support and watch their nude bicycle rides (France two weeks ago) to support that kind of research. Any one want to join me at a strategic observation post?
The only ex who has a piece of my heart is Excalibur
I enjoyed the factual information you have provided KK. Thank you.
Deer are gregarious by nature, whether as a result of a tiny food plot, a 1000 acre corn field, or a top-notch bedding area. Eliminating feeding, baiting, food plots will not stop deer from contacting one another.
Deer are gregarious by nature, whether as a result of a tiny food plot, a 1000 acre corn field, or a top-notch bedding area. Eliminating feeding, baiting, food plots will not stop deer from contacting one another.
You can take the man out of the woods but you can't take the woods out of the man.
"Celebrate your harvest with a Bloodtrail Ale(tm)!!"
"It CAN Be Done!"
"Celebrate your harvest with a Bloodtrail Ale(tm)!!"
"It CAN Be Done!"