NY'ers can now use a DRAW LOCK???

[jag]

That's what I said, Who will you sue? See how silly you sound? Let hunters choose what they want to use.

[secret]

Exactally !!!! you said it!! What are you afraid of.........Crossbows?

[killbilly]

I'm new to this forum, but have been in the archery business for 18 years. I find the thread interesting to say the least. First of all this is Excalibur's sight, which has a thread about a product that competes with Excalibur. My hat is off to Bill and Kathy for allowing this. I think this shows what a class act Bill and Kathy are. That being said, for all of you that would like to use a crossbow in N.Y. and can't. Might want to think twice about bashing this product. It is a foot in the door to open this state for regular crossbows.
I have hunted with a bow for the last 30+ years without missing a season. About 10 years ago I had a bike wreck which resulted in a 4" shoulder separation. After surgery 3x I was told I could not draw a bow anymore. I don't pay attention to well to doctors. I bought a draw lock as I already had a bow and couldn't draw a crossbow with one arm. I took 2 deer with it. The following summer I shot 3d with it and cleaned the course. Was disqualified as they said I was cheating even though it wasn't in the rules.
As far as this thing being safe is concerned, it is as safe as any crossbow as it has a working safety on it.
The Draw Lock bolts on in the arrow rest hole. IMHO after using this product. There is nothing that this product could do to harm a bow. If a bow blew up, take the bolt off and remove the drawlock and replace it with the rest. There is no way the manufacturer can tell the Draw Lock was on it. To be quite honest I have never seen a bow blown up with a draw lock on it. If a manufacturer denies any claim because of a draw lock they simply didn't want to stand behind the product to begin with.
Shooting an arrow at 4 grains per lb voids a warrenty also. A lot of people do it. If comeone gets a cracked riser while shooting 4 grains per lb. I bet their field points gain weight before shipping back to the manufacturer.
There is an old saying that keeps people from looking like a fool. Don't knock it till you try it.
I agree with the earlier post About the Excal being a fine bow. But if you have limited use of one arm the Draw Lock is the answer.

[one shot scott]

Jag: you seem to have some kind of financial or at least some sort of emotional reason for dragging this 6 month old thread back up to the top. I find it hard to believe that you just happened by the forum and found it buried 30 pages in... but.. If your reason for defending the draw-loc is "emotional" than I can sympathize. Crossbow users often have to do the exact same thing. I googled "draw-loc accidents" and nothing came up that I could find. I have never used one, but from what I can tell, I can see how someone with one arm that is not able to hold any weight would choose one over a heavy crossbow. What I dont understand is how a state(s) could reasonably allow one and not the other since it appears they operate much in the same way?

and then theres that link for a "crossbow"... thats held like a compound...buts really a crossbow....buts called a compound with an attachment

[See4miles]

I think the manufacturers are probably most concerned with the fact that the bow may be in the drawn condition for hours on end, something that is not customary with a vertical.

Additionally, the point at which the DrawLoc device attaches to the bow may be of concern as it will possibly create a higher PSI (pounds per square inch) of pressure to the riser where it is customarily disbursed by the human hand.

Both conditions could be considered abnormal for the weapon's intended use in the manufacturers eye. They have no choice but to disclaim liability for that.

Better to buy the entire Drawloc package, with their bow as well, if that is allowed under the inclusion definition.

[jag]

Jag: you seem to have some kind of financial or at least some sort of emotional reason for dragging this 6 month old thread back up to the top. I find it hard to believe that you just happened by the forum and found it buried 30 pages in... but.. If your reason for defending the draw-loc is "emotional" than I can sympathize. Crossbow users often have to do the exact same thing. I googled "draw-loc accidents" and nothing came up that I could find. I have never used one, but from what I can tell, I can see how someone with one arm that is not able to hold any weight would choose one over a heavy crossbow. What I dont understand is how a state(s) could reasonably allow one and not the other since it appears they operate much in the same way?

and then theres that link for a "crossbow"... thats held like a compound...buts really a crossbow....buts called a compound with an attachment

Yes, I do have an interest in the product. The thing is, I don't like Anything to get ripped on "if ain't so"! People get talking about things they know nothing about and can be a tremendous influence on folks who just don't know. I have been an advocate for crossbows for 20 years and wondered what the big fuss was and is all about? I think that if a crossbow is legal a Draw-Loc should also be legal and vice versa. As I stated before, the compound and crossbow is basically the same. The same limbs, same 6061 aluminum riser(in most cases), the same string materials and even the crossbow cams are resembling the compound bow cams. The crossbows are just beefed up for the extra poundage. Thank you for your reasonable way of thinking in this matter. It takes people like you to help the less advanced thinking along. This will be my last entry on this post, unless I need to "put out fires". Thanks again and good luck

[Old Jim]

I keep seeing the posts that a one armed man has to use a bow-loc because he can't cock a x-bow. Have they heard of the crank??

[jag]

I keep seeing the posts that a one armed man has to use a bow-loc because he can't cock a x-bow. Have they heard of the crank??

Old Jim,

The problem is not drawing the bow, it is holding it up and shooting it with one arm! You try to hold your crossbow up without a rest and shoot it. When you use a rail to rest the crossbow on, you are very limited with your shot. Try sliding a crossbow across the rail of your treestand to get in possition to shoot. It not easy! See my point?

[bob1961]

I keep seeing the posts that a one armed man has to use a bow-loc because he can't cock a x-bow. Have they heard of the crank??

Old Jim,

The problem is not drawing the bow, it is holding it up and shooting it with one arm! You try to hold your crossbow up without a rest and shoot it. When you use a rail to rest the crossbow on, you are very limited with your shot. Try sliding a crossbow across the rail of your treestand to get in possition to shoot. It not easy! See my point?

ok how does said one arm hunter do the same thing with that draw loc xbow/compound thingy would look harder........bob

....

[Old Jim]

I think finding a place to rest the forearm would be better than using your chin as a butt plate. Better for me at least.

[jag]

Everybody that shoots that way is looking through the peep in the string. This allows them to create a solid anchor point that does not move. That is why they shoot so well so quickly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcKNs-oi ... re=related

[TonyBanks]

Dear all,
Firstly I would like to give a big thanks to all who have welcomed me on to this forum and the advice given to me so far. It’s much appreciated, especially since I am out in the boonies at the moment and for the foreseeable future. I need web forums like this…
Today I would like to talk about the Inline Vertical Crossbow developed by Jerry Goff at Hickory Creek Archery. It is something which is of great interest to me, so I thought that I would chime in to the discussion here and outline some of the reasoning behind my interest in these bows. Before I begin, a disclosure. I already own one of his other bows, the 23 Magnum designed specifically for the draw loc attachment. I am biased in that, yes, I really really do love my 23 Magnum! I also bought the Inline Vertical Xbow last night over the phone! Weeee! I also own and really love my conventionally stocked xbows from Excalibur. I am new to this forum, so a little background may help people understand my perspectives on this.
I am a Brit, resident in a country in which there is no long standing tradition of private weapons ownership. Crossbows, whilst legal, are subject to very strict regulation here-similar to the difficulties in getting a shotgun license in the UK-not impossible but certainly a tedious, major league hassle. Where I am currently resident, people are not accustomed to the idea of folks walking around the bush carrying weapons of any description. Therefore, a system which allows me to go about enjoying my hobby discretely is something of great value to me. Whilst it probably falls under the strict legal definition of a xbow, it’s hybrid nature would allow me to argue the point as to whether it was just a very compact vertical conventional bow with an assisting device, especially if you were to whip off the trigger mechanism/draw loc device-since it could still be shot without the draw loc device. The ultra compact nature of this Vertical xbow is also great for discrete/easy packing in a rucksack. 18.5 inches A2A it is even smaller than the 23 inches A2A of the 23 Magnum. How small is that? I have been really interested in a takedown xbow for a while but none were of decent quality. The fact that the Vertical Xbow can be taken down for transport is another thing which influenced my decision. If light weight (5.6 lbs) and compactness in a primary weapon (for long hikes/treestands/blind hunting) or having an easily packable backup bow/xbow is important, these bows may be of interest to you too.
Another critically important point for me was this; I am also returning to archery after a very long break and am very time poor-I just don’t have the time to devote to getting really good that a conventional bow demands. I also lack a little upper body strength and was looking for something powerful too-my 23 Mag is set at 80lbs. A really big factor, probably more critical for me than compactness was ease of use and being able to become proficient with it quickly. The 23 Magnum, is basically just lock, nock, point and shoot. And then hit. It is extremely easy to shoot accurately and well from the get go and dispenses with form to the same extent that a conventional xbow does. If the Vertical Xbow is anything similar, it will be equally fun to shoot. Can’t wait to get it. As a side note, a couple of Canadian and American colleagues, who sorely miss engaging in shooting sports here, have expressed interest in these bows having seen how powerful and easy they are to shoot. They were put off by the long learning curve of conventional vertical bows, wanted something similar to a rifle but couldn’t jump through the hoops for x bow ownership. For guys like these who may be hesitant and intimidated about getting into archery, these bows could offer a simple, elegant transition-it did in my case and I can see where this is an issue for some people. If they later get the bug of archery, (as I have now) all the better. But it’s all good, isn’t it?
I listened to the points made about the draw loc device and safety, and decided to check it out myself. Everyone I spoke to told me that the limbs on a compound vertical bow and on a compound xbow are basically the same. I don’t plan on keeping my 23 Mag permanently cocked any more than I would a conventionally stocked xbow, so I don’t really understand the logic behind those arguments re safety. My 23 Magnum is at my regular 27.5 inch draw length (no overdraw stress), it is cocked and locked back for the time it takes me to nock, point and discharge an arrow in a relaxed, controlled manner. Just like a regular stocked xbow. Can’t really see any safety issue here, actually.
There is yet another issue which may be of importance to you. I also do not have access to an archery store where I am. Archery is basically an Olympic sport here and that’s it. So, being a newb meant that I needed help getting things set up for me. It is also a bit of a hassle importing gear here, so I really do value someone who can go the extra mile with me on a purchase. I also have set up and built my own business from scratch so understand what real customer service is. I recognize and deeply appreciate it when I see it. Jerry from Hickory Creek has really been an utter gent, he really worked hard with me in getting me set up and did what he had to do to make sure I was a satisfied customer. And I am. Does it show??? I try to reward truly excellent service with further custom and go elsewhere when the service I get is crap. So there you have it-my take on the 23 Magnum and the new Inline Vertical Xbow from Hickory Creek. I hope people find these points useful and worthwhile. I hope to be able to post a review when I get a chance to test run my new Vertical Xbow.
Very best wishes to all,
Tony Banks,

[Horizontal Hunter]

Need to post this correction to my previous post stating only 33 modified archery permits in NY. I was wrong. Just spoke with the DEC and there have been about 1400+- modified archery permits issued since 2005. Wanted to clear this up. That's a lot of people who wish they could use a crossbow.

That is 233 permits per year over the 6 year period. Just think how many more disabled hunters would be buying licenses if they allowed crossbows. I live in western Mass and I would travel to NY to hunt if they allowed crossbows.

Bob

[jag]

If people were not told wrong or mileading information as you guys on this and most all other forums, a lot more folks would be hunting with them. You make them sound like they are a death trap or somthing worse. It is Obvious you have never tried one or your comments would not have been so negative. Shooting a compound bow at 70 pounds with a Draw-Loc is very easy to draw (with your foot) and shoot. It is very accurate, quiet, fun and easy to disarm, without shooting an arrow into the ground. The compound bows of today's standard are ligt weight and very fast with lots of energy. In most cases, at 70 pounds, a compound bow is faster than a 150 pound crossbow and at half the mass weight (with the Draw-Loc). Crossbows are a great tool, but no better than the Draw-Loc on a compound bow. Call one of the many stores in New York state that sell the Draw-Loc and ask them if they work. There are all kinds of videos on Youtube. Search drawloc bow and they will start popping up. Thank you

[Old Jim]

Give it up! You keep trying to compare a motorized bike to an Automobile. This rinny-tin-tin can be fun to some, but PLEASE don't try to compare it to a X-bow. Two completely different animals