Luv this forum.
Anyway, the best thing to do is 1-do not even slightly consider joining PETA, 2-do not go on a pay hunt on which the animals are pen raised. Also, don't goo goo over someone's trophy that was fed out on pig popper. A larger percentage of which was. I know a little bit about it and you guys are acting like you are suprised as to what goes on.
It works like this. If a deer scores at least 150 at 1.5 years of age, it is a breeder buck and will be kept in captivity for collection of seamon. Seamon straws may sell for as much as $10,000 per. If a deer does not score 150 at 1.5 years, it will be sold to a pay hunt ranch, or released, as most deer farms also do pay hunts. At pay hunt ranches, deer are ussually sold as per the score like a menu.
What I consider to be my most significant trophy deer, though not the biggest, in 33 years of hunting is a 7-point who most of you northern guys would not consider to be worth squashing. Would score about 95 B&C. Yet the meaning and memory it represents for me could not be more if the deer scored 250. To me, it represents a very special time and person that will never, ever, be duplicated. Not just a $3,000 bill that was dropped on a 130 to 150 class hunt.
But, don't be so fast to ridicule pay hunts when all you here at big buck expose is 140 this, 160 that, 190 the other. There is a lot of pressure on pay hunt places to deliver. These are honest hard-working people who enjoy what they do. If you ever watch VS Channel, or Outdoor Channel, etc, you will see gigantic bucks walking across an open 200-acre field with not a care in the world and it always erks me to see it. Then the hunter acts like the deer is so wary when it finally gets 30 yards away, smells him and the camera crew, and stomps away. Here I am washing my hunting clothes every night in special soap, wearing select camo on nearly every square inch of my person, and the deer smells or sees me a hundred yard away.
If all I want is to put 170 inches on the wall to show my freinds, I could save up the mula and do it. 170 inches does not mean a hill of beans to me because I know the truth.
Canned hunts
Moderator: Excalibur Marketing Dude
Re: Canned hunts
That is an eye opener. People just want everything too easy these days and don't want to work for it. Pretty sad direction for hunting to be heading.
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axishunter
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:29 pm
Re: Canned hunts
Ranch owners or outfitters who conduct hunts this way should be strung up by their testicles(if they even have any).But guys,I beg of you not to buy in to any of the BS the Humane Society(animal rights wacko's)tries to show you.It is all propaganda they are using to shut down hunting all together.They know they can't shut down the entire hunting industry in one massive swoop,so they are going to do it a piece at a time starting with the high fence places.They tell you or show those commercials of the puppies and kitties they are trying to save, but do some research.Very little of the money you send them even goes to saving the p&k's.
Every industry has a few bad apples.There are some bad priests out there molesting children but I didn't hear anyone trying to ban religion.Same for law enforcement and medical personnel,but who do we call if we are in trouble or having a heart attack.
I guess I am just sick and tired of hearing all the negative around hunting and the liberal media egging it on.All of us as hunters have to stand together and fights these nut jobs or our kids and grandkids won't get to do what we love and what our forefathers have been doing for centuries.
I don't like bow hunting but I will defend and support it till the day I die.
There are some organizations out there that are fighting these knuckle-heads and they need your help.SCI,Exotic Wildlife Assoc.,NRA.Dallas Safari Club just to name a few.Become a member of any or even ALL of them and lets get it done.
Sorry about the length but I am dam tired of animal rights morons threatening my way of life.
Every industry has a few bad apples.There are some bad priests out there molesting children but I didn't hear anyone trying to ban religion.Same for law enforcement and medical personnel,but who do we call if we are in trouble or having a heart attack.
I guess I am just sick and tired of hearing all the negative around hunting and the liberal media egging it on.All of us as hunters have to stand together and fights these nut jobs or our kids and grandkids won't get to do what we love and what our forefathers have been doing for centuries.
I don't like bow hunting but I will defend and support it till the day I die.
There are some organizations out there that are fighting these knuckle-heads and they need your help.SCI,Exotic Wildlife Assoc.,NRA.Dallas Safari Club just to name a few.Become a member of any or even ALL of them and lets get it done.
Sorry about the length but I am dam tired of animal rights morons threatening my way of life.
Re: Canned hunts
I would like to add a different prospective to the discussion.
I am an exotic deer breeder and a member of the Exotic Wildlife Association. I do not offer hunting. I found the HSUS program on the Animal Planet misleading and anti-hunting propaganda, and this is why.
The deer and exotics within high fences are nourished, kept healthy, and protected from predators.
Exotic species are endangered in their country of origins because poachers or hungry people kill them. Endangered exotics within high fences have multiplied and saved. In fact, in 1996, for example, Exotic Wildlife Association members raised 2145 Scimitar-Horned Oryx while today they raise 6,198. And this is only one of the many species.
We indeed drug our animals, but for very different reasons. We dart to move them, to prevent the larger animals from endangering other animals, and to doctor them.
Like in all industries, the hunting industry within high fences has its bad apples, too, but few and far between. We are after them as much as any of you who posted on this site are. The Exotic Wildlife Association has an ethic committee and we goes after them. But why close an entire industry for a few bad apples? Do you close down all the hospitals because of a few bad doctors and nurses? Do you close down law enforcement departments for a few bad police officers? Do you close down the whole building industry because of few bad contractors?
My dear fellow outdoors enthusiasts, make no mistake. The HSUS wants high fences operations closed for all the wrong reasons. And when they succeed in closing our industry, they will say that hunting with modern arms is not fair chase. And then they will say that hunting with crossbows is not fair chase, and so on and so forth. Be aware.
We at the Exotic Wildlife Association condemn unethical hunting as you all do, and no hunter should condone behaviors as allegedly portrayed in the Animal Planet video. However, we must do diligent work in finding out the facts about this aspect of outdoor activity about which we are so passionate about and not fall for misleading and false information and reach false conclusions.
I am an exotic deer breeder and a member of the Exotic Wildlife Association. I do not offer hunting. I found the HSUS program on the Animal Planet misleading and anti-hunting propaganda, and this is why.
The deer and exotics within high fences are nourished, kept healthy, and protected from predators.
Exotic species are endangered in their country of origins because poachers or hungry people kill them. Endangered exotics within high fences have multiplied and saved. In fact, in 1996, for example, Exotic Wildlife Association members raised 2145 Scimitar-Horned Oryx while today they raise 6,198. And this is only one of the many species.
We indeed drug our animals, but for very different reasons. We dart to move them, to prevent the larger animals from endangering other animals, and to doctor them.
Like in all industries, the hunting industry within high fences has its bad apples, too, but few and far between. We are after them as much as any of you who posted on this site are. The Exotic Wildlife Association has an ethic committee and we goes after them. But why close an entire industry for a few bad apples? Do you close down all the hospitals because of a few bad doctors and nurses? Do you close down law enforcement departments for a few bad police officers? Do you close down the whole building industry because of few bad contractors?
My dear fellow outdoors enthusiasts, make no mistake. The HSUS wants high fences operations closed for all the wrong reasons. And when they succeed in closing our industry, they will say that hunting with modern arms is not fair chase. And then they will say that hunting with crossbows is not fair chase, and so on and so forth. Be aware.
We at the Exotic Wildlife Association condemn unethical hunting as you all do, and no hunter should condone behaviors as allegedly portrayed in the Animal Planet video. However, we must do diligent work in finding out the facts about this aspect of outdoor activity about which we are so passionate about and not fall for misleading and false information and reach false conclusions.
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MarkMarine
Re: Canned hunts
Deer Lady,
What a well spoken stance which further personifies a few others before it. Such was a passionate plea from an industry insider. I appreciate what you represent. However, reading your post gave the impression that the importation, breeding, and maintaining of said exotics is for a more noble purpose of proliferation as, to paraphrase, "Exotic species are endangered in their country of origins because poachers or hungry people kill them. Endangered exotics within high fences have multiplied and saved."
Yet, one thing your post does not reflect is the intent behind such kindness. Do you do this for the animal's population benefit or do you actually allow such rescued species to be hunted for profit? The animal you cited is no longer a wild species - due to several factors beyond the two you purported: loss of habitat due to domestic animal grazing as well as human encroachment far outweigh the hunter/poacher impact.
I am not being contentious, but am curious as to the motivational basis of your operation and what separates and segregates your niche from those of other such outfits. Having said that, I will reiterate once more: "The fact is, if you are referred to as a "client" by the landowners, then chances are you are not hunting...because even they don't see you as a "hunter" - or they'd call you one in the first place."
I do not mind if there are High Fence, Kennel-Club, Fish-in-the-barrel, shooting operations in business. However, I do mind when those "Shooters" call themselves "Hunters". Statement of fact, you do not buy a hunt; because I define "hunt" as a culmination of personal experiences which begins with weapon and skill meeting the aspiration to harvest an animal in the wild. There are no "success percentages" in hunting - because hunting is 100% success. The aspiration to harvest is only that - what is hoped for...but if success were animal orientated vs experience oriented, then I am afraid that all of us would be failures 99% of the time (as most of the time we return without that "Buck of a Lifetime").
I can shoot, but I'm no shooter
I look forward to your response.
What a well spoken stance which further personifies a few others before it. Such was a passionate plea from an industry insider. I appreciate what you represent. However, reading your post gave the impression that the importation, breeding, and maintaining of said exotics is for a more noble purpose of proliferation as, to paraphrase, "Exotic species are endangered in their country of origins because poachers or hungry people kill them. Endangered exotics within high fences have multiplied and saved."
Yet, one thing your post does not reflect is the intent behind such kindness. Do you do this for the animal's population benefit or do you actually allow such rescued species to be hunted for profit? The animal you cited is no longer a wild species - due to several factors beyond the two you purported: loss of habitat due to domestic animal grazing as well as human encroachment far outweigh the hunter/poacher impact.
I am not being contentious, but am curious as to the motivational basis of your operation and what separates and segregates your niche from those of other such outfits. Having said that, I will reiterate once more: "The fact is, if you are referred to as a "client" by the landowners, then chances are you are not hunting...because even they don't see you as a "hunter" - or they'd call you one in the first place."
I do not mind if there are High Fence, Kennel-Club, Fish-in-the-barrel, shooting operations in business. However, I do mind when those "Shooters" call themselves "Hunters". Statement of fact, you do not buy a hunt; because I define "hunt" as a culmination of personal experiences which begins with weapon and skill meeting the aspiration to harvest an animal in the wild. There are no "success percentages" in hunting - because hunting is 100% success. The aspiration to harvest is only that - what is hoped for...but if success were animal orientated vs experience oriented, then I am afraid that all of us would be failures 99% of the time (as most of the time we return without that "Buck of a Lifetime").
I can shoot, but I'm no shooter
I look forward to your response.-
Doe Master
- Site Admin
- Posts: 4741
- Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:57 am
- Location: Baden , Ontario
Re: Canned hunts
What is considered fenced in ?
The places like south africa and texas where there is fences are just as much to keep poachers out as keep the game in .
I don`t know about the deer in some of your places . But my deer on my cameras don`t venture more than a couple hundred acre . So if these so called contained hunts are conducted on thousands of acres . I would say that is pretty fair chase .
It comes down to " How do you want to hunt " .
There are people on here who like to run hounds , rifle hunt , bait or hunt with a spear . That is fine that is how each individual wants to hunt .
Drugging an animal for personal pleasure seems alittle over the top . But as stated by others remember who the source is . A very vocal group against anything to do with animals .
If I could afford a hunt down in Texas or over in Africa . I would be all over that like a fat kid on a snickers bar .
The places like south africa and texas where there is fences are just as much to keep poachers out as keep the game in .
I don`t know about the deer in some of your places . But my deer on my cameras don`t venture more than a couple hundred acre . So if these so called contained hunts are conducted on thousands of acres . I would say that is pretty fair chase .
It comes down to " How do you want to hunt " .
There are people on here who like to run hounds , rifle hunt , bait or hunt with a spear . That is fine that is how each individual wants to hunt .
Drugging an animal for personal pleasure seems alittle over the top . But as stated by others remember who the source is . A very vocal group against anything to do with animals .
If I could afford a hunt down in Texas or over in Africa . I would be all over that like a fat kid on a snickers bar .
Prone est ut nos es plurimus periculosus
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MarkMarine
Re: Canned hunts
That seems a little too much like a philosophical question to me...remaniscent of Slick Willy's, "...depends on what your definition of "is" is." LOL I do not do philosophy, however, I answered someone in a PM like this. I will include that answer here. It is analogous, but not philosophical LOLDoe Master wrote:What is considered fenced in ?
NOTE: Apologies to the ladies in advance for the example used.
"To me it's like two men. One is named Juan and the other John. Both have been on ship for months and finally sail into port and are given a furlough for Liberty. Both chose to seek out the company of a woman.
Juan goes away from the docks into a nice part of town where he hopes to meet a lady. He attends a nice restaurant complete with a cocktail lounge. There he meets a lovely woman and shares drinks and dessert. Afterward, the two go to a club for some lively music and dancing. Finally, midnight approaches and Juan escorts the young lady home. He stops in front of her door, kisses her hand, and thanks her for the wonderful evening.
Conversely, John walks to the first waterfront corner, picks out the prettiest prostitute, and follows her tp her dumpy hotel. Money passes from him to her, a rubber from her to him and 20 minutes later he's zipping his pants up headed back to ship.
John was succesful in fulfilling the physical - Juan was successful on filling the emotional and spiritual void.
They both hunted for companionship, but which was the one with the true trophy?
Is it any different with canned hunts?
The fact is, hunting (to the Native Americans at least) is a spiritual journey in which the reward for faithful adherence to lore and skill is oftentimes a harvest of the pursued species. It fills more than a Tag - or even a belly for that matter - it fills the soul of a man or woman. That experience cannot be purchased for any price. I have not seen the video or whatever it is Hank was citing. My response was to the general ideology of "Hunting". F PETA and the import hybrid they rode in on. They began with a noble idea and then, like all good things, got hijacked by idealogues LOL
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axishunter
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:29 pm
Re: Canned hunts
I've a question for Markmarine.Are ypou saying in your previous response that you cannot get the "emotional and spiritual" fulfillment from a hunt just because a fence is around the property you are hunting on?If so,I would welcome a discussion on that.
Re: Canned hunts
HELLO: axishunter, I am not replying for markmarine, he is much better in puting feelings into words then I.....But, because I agree with most he is saying about this, I will add my take the best I can.
In no way, do I agree with the "Anti-hunting groups" B.S. (he!! a picture of my GSP face everytime I go to work, would make one of there T.V. adds, lol).
For me, anyway, high fence hunting/killing is not the same as public land hunting, there is something lacking, i.e. for the most part it's a closed up game farm/ranch, sorry I can not put my feeling into the correct words, for me, I defind the word hunting as being different then the word killing.
I'am also a flyfisherman, & I also find it different when I fish a local river that is stocked with rainbows every spring, (ya can mostly hook-up anytime ya go, VS. then the brookies I get in some rivers in our U.P. that have not been stocked in years, if ever). The stocked river is lacking something for me.
I will/have defended all types of hunting/killing & will never join any anti-hunt group. But I do have a fear about these high fence opperations, that are poping up, alot of people are always looking for the ez way anymore, ( Ya can shoot your 150 (+) class buck, by 9:00 am & be watching the football game at 1:00 pm the same day, no luck needed, if ya got the money, just pay the man at the front desk & you'll be a great hunter). And seeing how goverment works, how long before the public land is sold, won't cost a state nothing on deer management, & would make more money to waste, on taxes they can charge on the game farms......But hey, if I had the time/money, I would raise buffalo, in a fence, for killing, I like the taste better then beef, but I would never call myself a buffalo hunter....But, thats just me
In no way, do I agree with the "Anti-hunting groups" B.S. (he!! a picture of my GSP face everytime I go to work, would make one of there T.V. adds, lol).
For me, anyway, high fence hunting/killing is not the same as public land hunting, there is something lacking, i.e. for the most part it's a closed up game farm/ranch, sorry I can not put my feeling into the correct words, for me, I defind the word hunting as being different then the word killing.
I'am also a flyfisherman, & I also find it different when I fish a local river that is stocked with rainbows every spring, (ya can mostly hook-up anytime ya go, VS. then the brookies I get in some rivers in our U.P. that have not been stocked in years, if ever). The stocked river is lacking something for me.
I will/have defended all types of hunting/killing & will never join any anti-hunt group. But I do have a fear about these high fence opperations, that are poping up, alot of people are always looking for the ez way anymore, ( Ya can shoot your 150 (+) class buck, by 9:00 am & be watching the football game at 1:00 pm the same day, no luck needed, if ya got the money, just pay the man at the front desk & you'll be a great hunter). And seeing how goverment works, how long before the public land is sold, won't cost a state nothing on deer management, & would make more money to waste, on taxes they can charge on the game farms......But hey, if I had the time/money, I would raise buffalo, in a fence, for killing, I like the taste better then beef, but I would never call myself a buffalo hunter....But, thats just me
Vortex W/ Twilight DLX & Ibex W/ Lumi-Zone
Firebolt's & Carbon Express Maxima Hunters W/ 2" Blazer
Excalibur's X-act broadheads
Excal's Flemish Dyna-Flight string. Fer now
Wayne & Brenda
Firebolt's & Carbon Express Maxima Hunters W/ 2" Blazer
Excalibur's X-act broadheads
Excal's Flemish Dyna-Flight string. Fer now
Wayne & Brenda
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MarkMarine
Re: Canned hunts
Axis, I just saw your question. However, Wayne has answered it as good as I would have so I will stand by his response. One caveat I may add though, when I say "spiritual" (as I said in my post) I am speaking in the Native American sense of spirituality. Speaking in that sense, then I will say unequivocably once more, you may get an emotional spark hunting high fenced, but if you are getting some sort of spiritual fulfillment, I would wonder at the authorship of such divinity
Unlike the brokered "hunting" proprietorships, the natural wilds are managed by Creator whose only fences are the distant shores and towering mountains. If a person wishes to go on an safari, but just cannot afford the fare to Africa, domestic exotics offer a cheap alternative to the real thing...then again, if it is not "the real thing" then how can it be the same thing?
It's not and, by its very nature, never will be.
PS: BTW, I do not follow any post as the notifications which come to my cell are annoying...BUT, if you PM me notifying me you have responded, they will come to my phone and I will log on as soon as I can to read your discourse.
Unlike the brokered "hunting" proprietorships, the natural wilds are managed by Creator whose only fences are the distant shores and towering mountains. If a person wishes to go on an safari, but just cannot afford the fare to Africa, domestic exotics offer a cheap alternative to the real thing...then again, if it is not "the real thing" then how can it be the same thing?
It's not and, by its very nature, never will be.
PS: BTW, I do not follow any post as the notifications which come to my cell are annoying...BUT, if you PM me notifying me you have responded, they will come to my phone and I will log on as soon as I can to read your discourse.
Re: Canned hunts
I haven't seen the show, but it has done its job. Like it or not ALL types of hunters need to stick together. A united group of hunters has less chance of being picked off by the anti s, and lets face it the ultimate goal of these groups is to ban hunting all together.
After hours of driving around deer parks hoping to shoot a escapee, my spirits have now decided that i should make plans to pay for a self guided hunt of Australian exotics. All deer in Australian herds have some sort of domestic blood, and i am pretty sure they run just as fast the other way when seeing smelling or hearing humans.
I have recently put the crossbow on the shelf and gone back to rifle because my spirits didn't like the idea of following blood trails. But as far as the anti s (green groups) are concerned any hunting is good hunting.
P/S Love the hunter not the hater
After hours of driving around deer parks hoping to shoot a escapee, my spirits have now decided that i should make plans to pay for a self guided hunt of Australian exotics. All deer in Australian herds have some sort of domestic blood, and i am pretty sure they run just as fast the other way when seeing smelling or hearing humans.
I have recently put the crossbow on the shelf and gone back to rifle because my spirits didn't like the idea of following blood trails. But as far as the anti s (green groups) are concerned any hunting is good hunting.
P/S Love the hunter not the hater
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axishunter
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:29 pm
Re: Canned hunts
I don't believe anyone in this discussion endorses any of the animal right nut jobs.The only point I was trying to make is that no matter what kind of hunting you do,whether its on a 2000 acre high fence ranch or on 2,000,000 acres unfenced,we all enjoy hunting.If we don't unite,they are going to stop ALL hunting if they get their way.All hunters could debate this for years to come,but I'm just looking at the big picture.I would also like to thank MarkMarine for his service if he indeed is or was a marine.Many THANKS.
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MarkMarine
Re: Canned hunts
I am going to try to take that in the spirit it was given. I will only say this:axishunter wrote:...I would also like to thank MarkMarine for his service if he indeed is or was a marine.Many THANKS.
ONCE
ALWAYS
FOREVER
Marine!