FPS, Does This Sound Right?

[BrotherRon]

I prefer accuracy and performance over speed. The heavier arrows will be more accurate at 40+ yards. Nice for showing off while target shooting, and also builds confidence when getting ready to hunt.
A heavier arrow and string both help with accuracy, as well as noise and vibration reduction.

Ron.

[TheBig1]

I prefer accuracy and performance over speed. The heavier arrows will be more accurate at 40+ yards. Nice for showing off while target shooting, and also builds confidence when getting ready to hunt.
A heavier arrow and string both help with accuracy, as well as noise and vibration reduction.

Ron.

Thanks Ron

[Drew]

I'm getting an FOC of 19% with that arrow. As the others said, you have a nice set of deer hammers there. They will hit with authority fer sure!

[Michiganhunter]

Well I just returned form MOR Archery in Utica Michigan after shooting my 380 Matrix through their Chrono. I have to say I was pleasantly surprised with the results. However I did shoot through another chrono (friends) a few months ago and got the very same results so I have to believe these are accurate numbers.
Here is my setup and the numbers.
380 Matrix Extra completely stock except for single stage TT trigger.
The string is the original factory string
Arrow is a Easton 2216 aluminum cut to 19 inchs.
Plastic nock
Standard front aluminum insert.
Three 2 inch blazer vanes with as much helical as I can get using my Bitzenburg fletcher.
Total arrow weight with 100gr point is 388gr on a scale.
Limb refraction numbers are 105 and 105.5
Jig-A-Loo lube on rail, spray.
A measured heavy 1/4 inch brace height off the reds bumpers.
The first chrono numbers on my friends chrono averaged 379 fps
Today on a different chrono at MOR Archery the number came in at 378 fps
I am obviously very happy with these numbers.
Not bad considering a 388 gr arrow in my book.
The guys at MOR said with a lighter arrow setup I would be pushing 405 MATRIX numbers. I am not going any lighter all I want is for these limbs to last my lifetime..lol

[bubba]

I hear ya sir.. Those are some dandy number's. I have the same feeling for my M-355. The number's are let's say more that i could have ever imagined. making me happy,happy. You take good care of them limb's now....

[nchunterkw]

I just ran your numbers on a ballistics calculator and with your current setup the numbers are as follows:

20 yards: -9", 67 ft/lbs
30 yards: -22", 66 ft/lbs
40 yards: -39", 64 ft/lbs


If you were to switch to a 350 grain arrow, which should bump you up to 305 fps:

20 yards: -7", 68 ft/lbs
30 yards: -18", 66 ft/lbs
40 yards: -32", 65 ft/lbs


Everyone always says heavier is better, but one needs to look at the actual numbers to see which is actually better for each individual bow. In your case with a slower bow I would definitely switch to the lighter arrow/head combo as the trajectory is much better and the energy (penetration) is practically the same.

With the lighter setup your arrow will have 7" less drop at 40 yards while providing the same amount of kinetic energy. The very small increase in noise and wind drift won't even be noticed with the lighter arrow, but you will notice a big difference in trajectory.

If he were shooting targets this would all be great. But since he is shooting deer - penetration is what you want and KE is not the be all end all when it comes to getting good penetration. Momentum along with arrow stiffness and broad head work angle, (also fixed vs. mech.) play a much bigger role in getting good penetration than KE does.

IMO 413gr is a great deer arrow for that setup. And with a multi-reticle scope the difference in trajectory is simple to account for.

[TheBig1]

I just ran your numbers on a ballistics calculator and with your current setup the numbers are as follows:

20 yards: -9", 67 ft/lbs
30 yards: -22", 66 ft/lbs
40 yards: -39", 64 ft/lbs


If you were to switch to a 350 grain arrow, which should bump you up to 305 fps:

20 yards: -7", 68 ft/lbs
30 yards: -18", 66 ft/lbs
40 yards: -32", 65 ft/lbs


Everyone always says heavier is better, but one needs to look at the actual numbers to see which is actually better for each individual bow. In your case with a slower bow I would definitely switch to the lighter arrow/head combo as the trajectory is much better and the energy (penetration) is practically the same.

With the lighter setup your arrow will have 7" less drop at 40 yards while providing the same amount of kinetic energy. The very small increase in noise and wind drift won't even be noticed with the lighter arrow, but you will notice a big difference in trajectory.

If he were shooting targets this would all be great. But since he is shooting deer - penetration is what you want and KE is not the be all end all when it comes to getting good penetration. Momentum along with arrow stiffness and broad head work angle, (also fixed vs. mech.) play a much bigger role in getting good penetration than KE does.

IMO 413gr is a great deer arrow for that setup. And with a multi-reticle scope the difference in trajectory is simple to account for.

Thanks Brother!

Chad

[kd8jgu]

I have the Grizzly
Shooting 406grn bolt
I am only using Danny Miller bumpers
And 1 of Vixenmasters strings
Chrono is at 289 avg

[TheBig1]

I have the Grizzly
Shooting 406grn bolt
I am only using Danny Miller bumpers
And 1 of Vixenmasters strings
Chrono is at 289 avg

That sounds about the same as mine then.

[JUSTANUFF]

Consider cutting one of your arrows down to 16.5 inches and refletch,,,100 grain tips,,,,see where you end up weight wise,,,include your lighted nock in the equation if you use them,,weigh um and chrono!

Think you might be pleased with the results as far as speed and Kinetic energy if that's what you are looking to improve,,you are heavy with that arrow on the Grizzly,,,but it will definitely do the job

good luck!

[wildcatter]

I just ran your numbers on a ballistics calculator and with your current setup the numbers are as follows:

20 yards: -9", 67 ft/lbs
30 yards: -22", 66 ft/lbs
40 yards: -39", 64 ft/lbs


If you were to switch to a 350 grain arrow, which should bump you up to 305 fps:

20 yards: -7", 68 ft/lbs
30 yards: -18", 66 ft/lbs
40 yards: -32", 65 ft/lbs


Everyone always says heavier is better, but one needs to look at the actual numbers to see which is actually better for each individual bow. In your case with a slower bow I would definitely switch to the lighter arrow/head combo as the trajectory is much better and the energy (penetration) is practically the same.

With the lighter setup your arrow will have 7" less drop at 40 yards while providing the same amount of kinetic energy. The very small increase in noise and wind drift won't even be noticed with the lighter arrow, but you will notice a big difference in trajectory.

Those numbers are very off!! "actual numbers" and cyber software numbers are two different things, one could be, and the other is reality!! I have tested no less than a dozen different crossbows, recurve, compound, RDT, conventional,,,, you name it, never once has any individual bow had more KE with any lighter arrow. You have to leave the cyber world and do it in real life, through a real chronograph, and I can assure you anytime you use the same bow setup with the same accessories,,, when you add weight you positively lose speed,,,, and gain KE,,, I have never found one that didn't.

As for the trajectory any bow at 30 fps slower the only way you will see a difference in trajectory out to 40 yards, is to use one aiming point!! Like Keith said, with a multi reticle scope,,,, the difference is not worth mentioning,,,, and I really don't think anyone notice the difference without a chronograph,,,, it's just a number that's all!

my Micro shoots 332 with a 351 grain arrow, and 310 fps with a 412 grain arrow,,, 61 more grains of weight. My Mad Max shoots 352 fps w/ 437 grain arrow, and 323 with a 542 grain arrow,,, 105 grains more arrow,,,, I'm shooting 412 gr. in the Micro,,, and 542 grn in the 380. the mad Max will shoot it's advertised speed it does 379 fps with a 351 grain arrow,,, with a very anemic 112 #KE,,,,,

My arrows are affected less by leaves, weeds, and wind, than with the lighter arrows in each bow, and that you have to test for in real life, no program will show it!!

[TPM]

A lighter arrow can have greater kinetic energy than a heavier arrow when it first leaves contact with the string. Kintetic energy is the product of mass and speed and a lighter projectile being driven by a given force will achieve greater speed than a heavier one. Where the heavier arrow shines is in momentum which is a product of mass and velocity (speed with direction). Momentum will eventually will, the further the arrow travels, dominate the arrow's performance. True, a heavy arrow will have more momentum at longer ranges it will also have a greater arc. It's true also that you can use a multi reticle scope to compensate but any error in distance judgment will be amplified. The flatter shooting the bow the more forgiving for bad distance judgment. This is why I don't recommend heavy arrows for slow bows. Way too much arc, no room for error in distance judgement.

[TPM]

Double post.

[wildcatter]

A lighter arrow can have greater kinetic energy than a heavier arrow when it first leaves contact with the string. Kintetic energy is the product of mass and speed and a lighter projectile being driven by a given force will achieve greater speed than a heavier one. Where the heavier arrow shines is in momentum which is a product of mass and velocity (speed with direction). Momentum will eventually will, the further the arrow travels, dominate the arrow's performance. True, a heavy arrow will have more momentum at longer ranges it will also have a greater arc. It's true also that you can use a multi reticle scope to compensate but any error in distance judgment will be amplified. The flatter shooting the bow the more forgiving for bad distance judgment. This is why I don't recommend heavy arrows for slow bows. Way too much arc, no room for error in distance judgement.

I think you need to get you chronograph setup and you will find what I stated is fact at any distance comparing both the same, with the same bow, and same components and specs on that bow, you will never get more energy going lighter at any distance! I have tested this extensively,, 25" of the string to ' off the string, it wont happen,,,,, like I say RDT, conventional, recurve compound, in real life, not with software.

When using a multi reticle bow, a 5 yard difference in actual distance , aim at 40 actually hit at 45 the difference in "30" fps is exactly .034 seconds and at the 45 yards a 5 yards screw up,, the difference between the two arrows is the slower arrow will be a screw up of .83" more than the faster arrow ,,,, if that causes a miss at an over 8" kill zone,,,, you need to find something else to blame on your miss!!!! I will be filling my freezer.

A 10 mph wind will blow the lighter arrow over more than that,,, and I have physically tested that in real life also... either will kill deer, and the biggest thing that matters more than 30 even 50 fps, is knowing your equipment and practice practice practice!!! Most archers that shoot 1000's of shots a year, have far more important things to worry about that 30 or even 50 fps!!!!

[TPM]

I stand corrected. I have no doubt heavy arrows can "hit harder" than lighter arrows but I think it's a risky trade off in slower shooting bow like the Grizzly. I've been competing in 3D for almost 10 years and have plenty of "real life" experience studying speed and arrow weight and how it affects trajectory at ranges from 10 to 60 yards. I've also been witness to plenty of shooters who were humbled when shooting unknown distances (too many spend too much time shooting at the typical 20, 30, 40 yard etc. ranges). Lighter arrows and the flatter trajectory that comes along with it is one way to lessen error with slower bows and to me that's pretty critical when hunting. Faster bows, no big deal but slower bows with heavy arrows you better have your distances down pat.