New trigger system

[Newtrigger]

Judging from the amount of interest and feedback in such a short time it seems I have struck a chord on the subject of Excalibur triggers. I don't know if its because the current trigger is considered the holy grail in the crossbow world and one shouldn't mess with the holy grail?? Anyway after reading all comments I went home and contemplated while I shot 20 arrows with my modified 10 years old Exocet. This coming weekend I am going to confer with a friend who is an avid crossbow hunter and 3D competitor. One of the things I am going to discuss is where and how to setup an open demonstration. I feel that it will be the only way convert what appears to be a very skeptical group.

[TPM]

Judging from the amount of interest and feedback in such a short time it seems I have struck a chord on the subject of Excalibur triggers. I don't know if its because the current trigger is considered the holy grail in the crossbow world and one shouldn't mess with the holy grail??

I don't think anyone is critisizing you for trying to improve the stock trigger or doubt your improvements. I think that most of the posts point to the fact that you may not find a very large market based on cost. Not to say your trigger mod isn't worth it but I think you'll find that with crossbow shooters they're not too willing to fork over 1/3 of what their bow cost in the first place to for an improvement over an aready very good system. There are other ways out there to significantly improve the stock triggers for a lot less money. If you lurk on here long enough you'll realize that the people here are the tweekers and gear weenie's. There have been a number of improvement idea's developed and, in some cases, marketed by members here. The members are also the hunters and competitive 3D shooters (myself included) with plenty of experience both in the woods and on the target course. Don't write us off yet. If you're anywhere in Southern Ontario I'm sure you could get a number of people here to help you with hands-on testing and offer first hand thoughts and advice.

[sumner4991]

people here are the tweekers and gear weenie's. .

What did you just call me?

I agree with TPM. It's a cost to benefit factor. A lot of us have done some crazy things to these bows in hopes of gaining a little improvement. The detering factor here is simply the cost involved vs. the benefit gained. Nothing to do with altering a great bow . . .most of us have done some alterations to our Excals.

You have easily described the cost part, yet, have not done as good of a job painting a picture of the benefits. I need a clear, full color picture of the benefits I will recieve if I spend $200.

How will it help me to harvest a deer at 20, 30, 40 or even maybe 50 or 60 yards? How will it improve the average hunter's groups? Just how smooth will the trigger perform? How long will the trigger last? Is there a warranty? Any testimonials?

If you do a very good job of showing the benefits, then you will have a lot better response.

Show us some benefits good enough to make us part with $200.

[Hi5]

If your design is truly a major improvement over the stock trigger, and proveably so, here's my suggestion.

If it doesn't cost you too much to do it, patent your trigger. Then either sell the patent or better yet, licence production to Excalibur (and maybe even to other manufacturers as well). I assume Excalibur would need production of thousands of triggers each year.

For you to make them and sell them as an aftermarket item, you may be limited to dozens sold each year. You will have the headache of getting dependable quality production, and then, as if that isn't aenough, you have to market them.

A few dollars coming to you each year from thousands made by the manufacturer(s) of crossbows may well be a heck of a lot more money in your pocket than a larger profit on just a few dozen units sold each year. ...And without the costs of production and risks trying to find sales.

[strum]

people here are the tweekers and gear weenie's. .

What did you just call me?

you beat me to it Scott
Just what does a Gear Weenie do in his spare time?.sit on his bun? ketchup on his trigger skills?..manays alot of questions that need to answered ..most of use realy relish our stock triggers.

[TechTed]

New Trigger, I don't believe you hit any "nerves."

We tried to provide you with honest feedback in a polite but direct way. Because that feedback wasn't a resounding wave of support doesn't mean you hit a nerve.

It means that the advisability of marketing the trigger to this particular group may not be successful and that a non-objective survey on a forum of people who think highly of their brand of crossbow isn't a way to do credible market research. Like trying to sell ice to Eskimos in January.

You might try a more scientific marketing survey by renting a booth at a hunting show that has a place for crossbows and accessories/upgrades and doing some objective surveys based on demonstrations you might provide. You also might canvas some of the national/international hunting organizations for members who have an interest in crossbow hunting and target shooting. Then survey their interest in the new trigger.

There may be other crossbow manufacturer's triggers that need a major enhancement and, therefore, have created a market for an aftermarket adjustable replacement trigger of higher quality, reliability and durability.

Please there is no offense intended - again, honest, direct but gentlemanly advice.

[one shot scott]

GEAR WEENIES ahhhhhhahah! That's good stuff tpm!

[Xbowkiller]

Trigger on my Vortex is great. Factory makes a perfect trigger. Doesn't mean it can't be made better. Make a trigger better and people will buy it. Human nature wants eveything better. Research and development. Good luck. Tough crowd here .

[strum]

Trigger on my Vortex is great. Factory makes a perfect trigger. Doesn't mean it can't be made better. Make a trigger better and people will buy it. Human nature wants eveything better. Research and development. Good luck. Tough crowd here and sellers stick together and try to keep others out. Not all but some.

[one shot scott]

only a "geer weenie" would put a tyr swing in da living room strum. nice whitewall! re-tread?

[Boo]

Trigger on my Vortex is great. Factory makes a perfect trigger. Doesn't mean it can't be made better. Make a trigger better and people will buy it. Human nature wants eveything better. Research and development. Good luck. Tough crowd here and sellers stick together and try to keep others out. Not all but some.

Words are like arrows, once released it cannot be called back.

[Newtrigger]

I do appreciate all the feedback I am getting and I have also received a few private messages offering support which I will certainly consider.

Here are some pictures of the test rig I made so I could torture test my prototypes. The trigger assembly is clamped on one side and is connected to a ratchet with a steel cable. Inline there is a loadcell that allows me to measure the tension in the steel cable. With this setup I can easily subject the trigger to 400 lbs tension.

[strum]

only a "geer weenie" would put a tyr swing in da living room strum. nice whitewall! re-tread?

why yes her name is Retread ,,,how did you guess?

[NonTypicalCPA]

If your design is truly a major improvement over the stock trigger, and proveably so, here's my suggestion.

If it doesn't cost you too much to do it, patent your trigger. Then either sell the patent or better yet, licence production to Excalibur (and maybe even to other manufacturers as well). I assume Excalibur would need production of thousands of triggers each year.

For you to make them and sell them as an aftermarket item, you may be limited to dozens sold each year. You will have the headache of getting dependable quality production, and then, as if that isn't aenough, you have to market them.

A few dollars coming to you each year from thousands made by the manufacturer(s) of crossbows may well be a heck of a lot more money in your pocket than a larger profit on just a few dozen units sold each year. ...And without the costs of production and risks trying to find sales.

In my opinion, Hi5 nailed it. You need to be selling your product to the manufacturers. It sounds like your cost to manufacture is reasonable with what it costs the manufacturers. Although, if you can get your product into the hands of some knowledgeable shooters, they could provide some additional "pressure" on the manufacturers to get your trigger to maket.

Good luck! I too would suggest a good commercial insurance policy!

[pokynojoe]

Newtrigger:
I have a great admiration for the resourcefulness of the members of this forum, and I would encourage you to continue in your endeavor. I have an appreciation for a good trigger and how it enhances both accuracy and precision.

The market for crossbows is really starting to expand. Many of the traditional archery organizations such as the NFAA, ASA, etc. are starting to become aggressive in including crossbows in their tournaments. As these classes expand, the desire for an after-market trigger should increase. The “door” is only ajar right now, but I believe soon it will be wide open. It is in this segment of the archery community, that you may find a wider acceptance of your product.

In addition, despite the replies to your inquiry, there will always be a segment of the hunting population that may find value in your trigger. You might also find some acceptance among disabled crossbow hunters.

As far as the retail price of your trigger is concerned, personally, I would not be able to afford the $200.00 you are asking. Having said that, I see what the members of my archery club spend on their archery kits, and I wouldn’t think your price point would be too extreme. Also, I understand the costs involved in bringing something like this to fruition.

In closing, as you’re discovering, Excalibur owners are a fiercely loyal lot. They know what they like, and they like what they know. Their skepticism is understandable. Having said that, as you are more able to demonstrate the benefits of your trigger, I think you’ll find them to be an encouraging group of people.

Good luck,
Joe