bowsite bullys!!!

[Woody Williams]

We've turned a few to our cause.

Two big time antis on Archery Talk ended up as crossbow advocates.

One is a regular and well respected poster here now.

I applaud him for his open mindness. Of course he now catches hades for seein the light.

[speedball]

I just cant understand the way guys think in the whole scheme of things, we need everyone to win out this monumental battle to come against the anti's and still you have guys like the owner of a major web-site deleting posts and censoring the stuff that eventually will overcome him, crossbows are here and they are bigger by the moment, i cant wait to see what its like soon from now, a stronger united front not willing to be pushed around and a voice that has to be heard!!!!!!!!

[The Butcher]

Jim C, hit it right. PBS, what a crock of crap. I know some PBS members, they all shoot recurves and longbows (which there is nothing wrong with I used to do it before my injury), and if you don't, you might as well not even show up, cause they didn't want to talk to you. Their the closest thing to an anti there is. I think they just like the little decal they can put on the truck cap window, and a tee shirt to wear. Professional is the key word. I'm a Professional loader operator. I make my living at it. Half of those guys would starve to death, if they counted on their skills to get game. Most PBS members I know, join and shoot traditional equipment because someone tells them their not really hunting if they don't, not because they want to. If you kill a buck under 135 P&Y, they say just think how big that buck would have been next year. Stuff like that really gets my goat. I went to the Cabela's in Wheeling, to look at some crossbow stuff, and got into an argument with the archery guy(who was wearing a PBS shirt), (and he got hot) when I told him about me tearing my shoulder out, and was looking for a crossbow. He kept pushing towards a low poundage recurve, or compound, because an xbow was not really a bow. I said what would you rather me do, not practice, and go hunting with a low poundage recurve or compound, and wound everything, or be in the woods with something user friendly for folks like me. He said he'd rather I not hunt at all than use a crossbow. I told him my doctor's excuse was good enough for the state of Pa. and then I ask how much he made Professionally bowhunting, since he was a professioanl, and he got mad, and ask another guy to help me. But he was fuming. Irritating at the time, but I think I had the last laugh. Butcher

[Tom]

Butcher what you should have done was ask to see the store manager and get him to help you with the crossbows. Then explain to him the attitude of the sales people under him in his department. And if her was in the same state of mind as his salesmen, after you found out what you wanted to know, inform him that you would make your purchase at a place that welcomed people with disabilities into archery.

To bad people are not held acountable for their actions like them.

[Jim C]

Hey GUYS- I actually won a debate with one of their members. He was complaining about our accuracy and shooting ability.
I asked him if it wasn't our responsibility as hunters to use the best method available to make clean kills and he backed off.
I made a few posts after but they soon were deleted.
The biggest thing they are afraid of is that most of us(not me yet) make cleaner kills and they might become targets(already are of the antis.)
They also feel that we will infringe on their hunting areas. Aren't we all HUNTERS????

Great point. I have dealt with antis (anti hunters-including two live debates on 5500 radio in Cincinnati many years ago with Ingrid Newkirk and anti xbow morons) I also have been an archery coach for years. MANY of the trads I see became trads because they tired of the "arms race" in compound archery. HOWEVER, many of the trads I also have seen are there BECAUSE they are HIDING form flaws that STICK OUT LIKE SORE THUMBS in the compound community

1) snap shooting
2) freezing
3) flinching

and all other sorts of ailments that compound shooters get-usually a case of image of the sight on the target becoming a trigger and internal self doubts fight that trigger-often forces those people into trad bows. Go to a trad shoot. Some of those guys can SHOOT really well. SOme shoot trad because you don't have the pressure to hit like you do in MBO or Pro Compound (I love claims of a certain trad shooter who says he is the undisputed greatest world champion [ie he is better than Pace or McKinney or Ragsdale, or Cousins who only got 3 world championships each] but his world championships involved beating maybe 8 guys from a couple US states )

In the trad ranks, you will see all sorts of awful form breaks that would get you some serious attention in the compound ranks yet among the trad flock is seen as just another accepted variation of a style that has no real form standard-at least among those who bray about crossbows. IN RECURVE ARCHERY there might be two variations -and that comes down to concentrating on the front of your shot or the rear. Among top compound guys, it used to be a bent arm vs a recurve similar straight arm-now its more the surprise release vs the controlled release. In the trad gang you still get clowns telling those who gap or string walk or face walk that they really aren't proper etc.

I have had trads tell me the "deadly efficiency of crossbows" will give bowhunting a bad name. ACTUALLY if I were PETA I would go after the trads. MOST OBJECTIVE people who have no position or even a slight favorable view of hunting are going to detest WOUNDING far more than someone who quickly kills the deer. GO TO ANY 3D tournament and film a bunch of trads and you have a PETA campaign tape.

As to the Professional Bowhunters-you are dealing with self esteem and EGO issues there. These are the people who need a crutch to lean on and when you -by your actions of not buying into the creed of their cretinous cult-use a crossbow its like kicking their crutch away because they have the paranoid delusions that your xbow somehow belittles their "pure" bowhunting experience and reputation.

archery and bowhunting and hunting in general would be better off if all those PBS xbow bashers were to take up croquet and leave the woods for good

[globemountain]

In my opinion the best thing a person can do is ignore these folks.

I know a pile of traditional archers.

Almost all of them have serious ego problems. The kind of help they need isn't going to come from an internet forum or an archery shop/club. It's Brainwash city for them and they like it that way.

I just keep and say;

See you in church!

It's not just the traditional archers that have the ego problems.... I love to shoot my bows, but I don't shoot at a local club anymore because I hate the ego fest that goes on. It's like a "brand war" everytime you show up to shoot. I just shoot in the yard now....I never argue with myself or anything! And I don't give a rat's butt what the guys at the local club think of me either.....If I want to hunt with a crossbow they can go pee up a rope! The people on the OUTSIDE of the archery community think the anti-crossbow guys look like a bunch of idiots when argue the evils of the crossbow while they hold up a compound bow that has technology just short of satelite guided arrows!

[The Butcher]

I was re-reading, I do that alot, I should be hunting right now. I am sorry to all of the guys who are on this forum, and like to shoot traditional equipment. I started with an old Bear grizzly, which I still have, I also hunted with a Custom Wapiti TD for 10 years. Some guys, are really great shots with Tradtional equipment. Most I know, limit their shot's to 20 yds, and practice almost every day. I hate to say been there done that, but I have. Compounds are much easier to shoot, and with sight's and a release, I see very little difference than a crossbow other than having to draw. If you took away sight, and release aids, I can't even imagine how many wounded deer you would find a year. Ethic's, and knowing your limit, is where it's at. With a bow, compound bow, crossbow, or rifle or slug gun or muzzleloader. But I'm sorry to th (Ethical) traditionalist. I still feel the same way about the PBS though!

[speedball]

I would love to have a pro like Jim C teach me proper stuff, i'm self taught compound shooter that loves crossbows too, I've been told that i am a natural good shot form and all but the expert advice would do me good, i just wish in a perfect world that guys would just set there ego's aside and have fun at whatever there good at but thats never gonna happen cause there is guys like the PBA, all i got to say is thank god for this forum cause those guys are missing the boat