Professional Tree Removal Workers?

[gad]

There are a self-locking knot called "prussik", that works very well. I have climbed for some time in my life and have used this knot sucessfully.

http://www.northernmountain.com/gearinfo/knotinfo.asp

Take a look. You must be warned that you must do this knot with an apropriate material (climbing static rope, between 7 and 8 milimeters) to it do the job right.

Test the knot with your real rope before use it seriously. Any doubt you can PM me.

edited to add a better explanation website: http://www.wa6otp.com/rope.htm

[DesertRat]

Just buy the "Fall Guy System". It works like a seatbelt on an inertia real. You attach it to your harness while on the grouund and as you climb it reals in the slack. If you fall at anytime, it will gently lower you to the ground.

[gad]

If you fall at anytime, it will gently lower you to the ground.

Are you certain of this? I haven't seen this statement in any of their advertisments.

I am certain that a well made prussik will stop a fall, for sure. Using this knot is the simple and reliable way to do your ascending/descending ways secure. As the excalibur uses the simple and reliable recurve system.

[DesertRat]

bstout,gad, I stand corrected. It is not the fall guy system that does this. I was looking at 2 seperate systems and the Fall Guy happened to be one. It stops like a seatbelt. I will try and find the link to the one that lowers you to the ground.

[GREY OWL]

I'm with Gad, homemade prussic knot.

Grey Owl

[gad]

Yep! I'm talking about a system that will protect you in the event you fall asleep or have medical issues. A system that you don't have to operate yourself and will safely lower you to the ground.

I think that you must try the prussik before buy any other system. Cause it's really easy to operate, safe and it's very cheap.

[Tom]

I have the prussic knot which I use to tie me to the tree once in the air. Your right bstout, this knot only stops you from falling. But what is good with this know is that it is easly adjustable, it will slide up or down the rope around the tree. This aspect will make it easier when climbing up/down the tree or after you reach your height.

I think I remember a device that did attach to a tree which would lower you at a very slow pace if you had fallen, but if I remember correctly, you needed to pull a lever with a string attached to be lowered. Sorry I could not find it again but it was bulky and heavy looking. I dismissed it because of it looking that way. I pack in enough weight now .

[DesertRat]

From what I can find, there is nothing out there. I thought I saw a device that lowered you but couldn't track that link down. I migh have been mistaken.

The current systems are going to stop you from falling. If worn properly, you don't fall, but swing out of the treestand. You simply have to step climb back into it. The idea is not to have any slack when seated.

If you are worried about a medical situation, maybe it is ground blind time. SHort of having a system that is motorised and run with a handheld remote control, you could leave yourself hangin at any time. There are always going to be risks involved with treestand hunting and going into a treestand with a known medical condition, especially one like panic attacks, is just exposing yourself to more danger.

I would say the Fall Guy system would be your best bet at the current time because you are secured before you start to climb. If you have a medical condition that would inhibit you from climbing down the tree with a FG sytem on, I doubt you will make it to the truck. I would suggest always hunting witha partner and/or a cellphone.

If you do find some kind of system that does what you are looking for, post it here. I am sure a lot of people would want one.

[joeumholtz]

Well, since this started with professional tree trimmers, I thought I'd throw my two cents in.

25 years ago I cleared power lines for a living. (so this information is dated). I worked on a climbing crew but because of my size 6' 2" 240 lbs, and my fear of heights I didn't climb much. We used climbing saddles that were pretty heavy and had D rings attached for ropes, climbing straps (chicken strap) etc. We would spike to the top of a tree, tie in with our chicken strap ad then tie in our rope for descent. We used a knot that I think more closely resembled a tautline hitch, then a prussic. Essentially it was a series of half hitches, about 4, maybe 5 I think. If you got it too lose, your descent was much more rapid than anticipated. If you had it snug, you could actually hold yourself in place with it. To descend you just pulled on the knot. To stop you pulled up on the "tail" (If memory serves.

I'm not sure what the technology is today. I think there are actually very few climbing crews anymore. Most trimmers work from bucket trucks these days.

As fgar as using something like this in a treestand, well I use aharness that has a breakaway feature to the strap. If I fell out of my stand I estimate that when I stopped my fall, my feet would only be about six feet from the ground. I'm hoping I can reach one of the three knifes I cary to complete my descent.

just my two cents.

[gad]

Gad: I don't see how the knot will function by itself. How can it limit the load? How can it regulate the rate at which it lowers you to the ground. It appears to me that the knot would "leave you hanging".

I'm after a system that is self operating and not one that you must work yourself. That's the clincher!

In truth it does not lowers you to the ground. This knot works as a self-locking knot on the case of a fall, and it is easy opened to move it through the rope, with the movement of your tumb, so you can use two knots like this to simulate a stair to go up and use it to lock you to the rope in the case of a fall.

To descent, I suggest you one eight figure, that I have used in climbing. Works very well and is easy controlable.

So, the set of two well made prussiks and one eight figure works for up-lock-down through a tree. But if you are looking for a ready-to-use I think that is the way:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... hasJS=true

[GREY OWL]

bstout, if your looking for a safe, economical, system to desend your tree, then I think the safest, fastest way, is getting up and going down the tree on tree steps, backed up with a very simple prussic knot on a belay line. I can see what your trying to get at by having a professional desender. But what your looking for, would have to be set up 2-3 feet away from the tree trunk, so you aren't rubbing the tree trunk all the way down. Then what happen's if the system fails or doesn't work properly ? To me its just alot more un-necessary equipment to carry.

This is the system I eventually would like to have set-up.

I like using the KISS method, keep-it-simple-stupid.

Just my .002 cents.

Grey Owl

[[email protected]]

Two cents. Note that each coin is clearly labeled one cent meaning one whole cent.



There are a lot of devices that an individual could use to descend after an arrested fall from a tree stand and there are a lot of websites that detail these devices/techniques.

I agree that a Prusik knot can be used to unload a rope facilitating descent.

On another topic (in the vein of sharing what we know) I want to mention:

$1 = 100 cents

Stated another way:

(in fractional notation) 1 cent = $1/100

(in decimal notation) 1 cent = $0.01

So, in fact, to indicate two cents one should write

two cents

or

2 cents

or even

$0.02

Thanks for listening.

[email protected]

[wabi]

My 2¢
Bob,
If I'm not mistaken you have to get the rope up in the tree before any type belay system would work.
That means climbing the first time without it.
Are you looking for a way to climb a new location?
Or protection when getting up to the (already set-up) stand?
I've attached a climbing rope above the stand and near ground
level, but I had to set the stand before I could attach the rope.
I used the prussic knot system after the rope was in place.

[Grizzly Adam]

Hey, Bob ...

You may well have done this already, but searching the net using the term "arborist supplies" should link you with every supply house serving tree workers. If it's used in tree climbing, companies supplying arborists should carry it.

Even if they don't have what you need, arborist supply companies have all sorts of neat outdoor gear, and everything associated with tree climbing is of far higher quality than the stuff that comes in stand boxes.

Hope you find what you need! If you already looked under "arborist," this will only be my one cent's worth.

[pokynojoe]

"I'm trying to come up with an economical device that would allow safe descension from a tree regardless of the circumstances. In other words, you could fall out of your treestand and be casually lowered to the ground (by the device) without harm."

bstout:
In my line of work, I have received training from the Tennessee Mountain Rescue, and the Tennessee Highway Patrol Swat Team. This is in 'high-angle" rope work. One thing to remember, the prussic will, in fact belay a fall, but then you have to be able to take the "load" off the knot in order to continue up or down. There are those in the "field" that are advising against the use of this knot, or at least having some redundency when using it. It's not comfortable to be hanging from one of these, believe me. Also, if tied incorrectly, it could be disastrous. Also, one of the posters suggested the use of a static rope, I would suggest that if you anticipate a greater than 1:1 fall, well then, a dynamic rope would be better, one rated for 5 to 10 falls. Also, a prussic really is only effective if the ropes are two different diameters, your repel or lead climb rope being the larger by almost half. I have seen these fail, it's not pretty. I would highly advise anyone engaged in rope work to seek some training, you have to know what to do when things go wrong, and they do! As far as ascenders, I have used several different brands, the Jumars being the most popular around here. They work, but you have to know how to use them. There is also a device called a "shunt" that is a self-belay device, but requires a conscience effort on your part to make it work correctly throughout the descent or climb. There is a device called a "bobbin" which was popular among European climbers for years. All of these require you to do "your part." I suppose one could make the case that you're only 15 or 20 feet in the air. I have seen a man suffer extensive brain damage falling from a distance of only 12 feet! Be careful, and know how your system works. I am not aware of any device that would do what you require, at least one that you would consider "affordable". That doesn't mean there isn't one out there. The best "device" is a buddy close by that can assist you or call for help. Just like diving, "NEVER CLIMB ALONE."

Regards
Joe