"Banned from bear hunting in Ontario"

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Woody Williams
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"Banned from bear hunting in Ontario"

Post by Woody Williams »

"Banned from bear hunting in Ontario"

From robert hoague, bowhunting.net

Bowhunting.net Banned From Ontario, Canada

August 7 - We arrived at the Canadian Customs today a few minutes before 5:00pm and handed the custom's lady our passports and driver's licenses. She asked the standard questions (Are you a US citizen? etc.) and asked us to park. Two customs gentlemen came out and looked through all our stuff and asked us to go inside.

After a short wait a lady from Immigrations asked for Fred Lutger and he went over to her cubicle.

All this is pretty much standard fare at the Ontario border and it was expected. It's their job.

But we didn't expect what happened next.

The Immigrations lady and Fred had a lengthy discussion. Then she instructed Fred to make a list of all the food we had with us. We did, right down to the last can of Bush's baked beans and 6 bananas. Fred took her the list and she went over it carefully. She then said it was not a problem.

Next. the Immigrations lady told Fred that he could not bring his video camera nor any video equipment in the country. She instructed him to leave it all on the American side.

Then she asked for me.

She asked me questions about Bowhunting.net and my part in it. There was a computer monitor on her desk and she said she was looking at the web site. I could not see the monitor's screen myself but I assume she was. Although some of the questions she asked me about the site seemed self explanatory if she was looking at the right site. But I guess that was some sort of interrogation technique.

I want you to know that answered all of her questions accurately and in a polite and respectful manner. Her manner with me was calloused, suspicious and condescending. She told me she did not see how bowhunting.net was promoting or helping "Canada."

She told me to sit down. When she talked to me again she said I could not hunt bear if I brought my laptop computer into the country. If I had my computer I would be working and I could not work in Ontario unless I had a work visa. Fred asked her if I brought my computer in and did not hunt, would she issue me a work visa. She said no. She was not going to let me into the country with my computer.

Our ordeal took nearly 3 hours at the Ontario border. When we were dismissed we drove back to International Falls and went to the Chocolate Moose restaurant to eat and think things out.

We ate our dinner in silence and then I told Fred that if I couldn't bring my computer I was going to fly back home. Fred said, "No you're not. We're all driving back to Chicago."

And that's what we are doing now.
Woody Williams

We have met the enemy and he is us - Pogo Possum

Hunting in Indiana at [size=84][color=Red][b][url=http://huntingindiana.proboards52.com]HUNT-INDIANA[/url][/b][/color][/size]
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kendo kid
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Post by kendo kid »

Woody,
We on this side of the border are real sad to hear about your misfortune. Regrettably, it is the power of officials to run our lives.

I believe I met this Immigration official. I think her name is Ima Peta.

Kendo Kid
The only ex who has a piece of my heart is Excalibur
TPM
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Location: Kitchener, Ontario

Post by TPM »

I'm very sad to here about this but before anyone gets too carried away on an anti-hunting slant to this story I must say I'm not suprised by what happened. I have travalled a lot to the USA on business and in recent years it has become increasingly difficult to get across when your trip is business related. At times we've had troubles getting tools, laptops and even cameras across with us. It's not always an issue but it's happened enough that we often courier the stuff ahead of time down to where we are going and we always carry a letter of intent from the corporation.
I agree, these guys got shafted but it really doesn't take much for some of these immigration officials to turn against you.
Tom
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Post by Tom »

Many years ago my dad travelled to Buffallo with my cities toursim people to promote this cities fishing and toursim.

The US customs would not allow any of the video equipment across the boarder. They had to rent TV's, video players ect from the US just to show the many video that they had to promot the local attractions. They were allowed to take the video tapes, but nothng else.

Back to these fellers. I would lay money that there is much more to this story then what they are letting out. Like was there any trouble the last time there were in Canada. Have they caused any trouble in their home area. I know from talking to a few Canadian Customs agents, that if someone is RED FLAGGED that they are to make it very difficult to enter Canada.

Maybe bowhunting.net has been flagged for their comments and beliefs. He was given the ability to enter and go hunting, but without his computer. he choose not to. The banning of the video and cameras sounds to me like they were RED FLAGED. That would be the only reason they would bann the camera equipment, for security or they believed that they would be working in Canada making videos to sell without permit.

Alot of people do not realize that before you talk to them in the booth, they already know who should be in the vehical and what to expect with the occupants. If there is any warrents, look outs, or watches on that vehical or the persons related to that vehical. Believe it or not, it is not that difficult getting into Canada, more difficult getting into the USA.

I would bet that the customs agents believed that the hunt was not for personal but for public gains. That they would sell the story or videos, there fore they would be working and makeing money without a permit.

Just my opinion.
Tom
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BUCKSHOT
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Humm!

Post by BUCKSHOT »

Just a thought here! I am sorry to hear that the fellow was not allowed into the country, it is a shame to have your plans spoilled for any reason!

The fact of the matter is that Customs have been set up on both sides for security reasons obviously, and we have all been driven to follow the rules as closely as possible regardless of who is coming to and fro!

If Canadian Customs agents do not do what they feel is the right thing, in all cases, they get scrutinized to a great degree!
We have all seen that before!

It seems that options were provided and not accepted, it would not be fair to scrutinize Customs for doing the right thing as well, would it?
Enjoy the Harvest!
Shakky
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Post by Shakky »

I'm sorry this happened but the title is incorrect. He was not banned from hunting bear in Ontario he was not permitted to bring his laptop into Ontario. There is a difference. Thats not to say that the officer didn't have some kind of personal bias. She may have but we don't know that. I think it is worth while to bring a complaint against her. She may have done this kind of thing before and there may be a pattern of her causing trouble for hunters.
Tom
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Post by Tom »

jh45gun lets not jump the gun here with what we are thinking about what happened. We have no inside info as to why they were Red Flaged or even if they were red flagged.

But it was interesting to me that the custom agent knew about "Bowhunting.net " . This tells me that they were either on the look out for this crew or this organization. It just maybe that they were flaunting this organization, trying to push some weight arround with it to get through customs faster.
understand the concept of a permit for work, but it seems to me this is biting the hand that feeds you since it would be publicize more tourism for Canada. This is not a knock guys, but I seem to feel that your country is getting more and more anti American in some circles. Now I am not saying the whole country is prone to that, I know America has some darn good friends north of the border. It does seem that we are picking up some enemies though too which is unfortunate. I know there has been some trade issues and other political things in the past that may affect things but tourism between both countries should not be one of them. Too bad this happened.
Canada takes it's security very seriously. Most Americans do not believe that or understand how serious we are about it. just listen to your politians and news media. If this crew wanted to make a film to sell, then they would have followed the proper chanels like the others do, not just try to come in to do what they want. I can imagine that there would be somme sort of fee (TAX) to allow you to come in here to make money for yourself.

IF you want the relations between our two countries to be the same as it was before, sorry it has changed and it will never be the same. But almost all that blame is on your Americam government. Within a few years everyone, Canadian & American will need a PASSPORT to enter the USA. You spoke of "getting more and more anti American ", I honestly do not think it is that at all. Most of what you see is demands that your government has made on the Canadian government and our boarder customs. Your government I believe could care less about Canada and the boarder States and the crossboarder business that they do with eachother. The US government has on an ongoing basis made rulings or laws that totally go against agreements, even been ruled against by the world court, but they just totally ignore the court rulings unless they win the rulings. Does Canada start doing things back, no we don't, we tr to be the nice neibour to the North We could you know, we could stop your oil from crossing our boarder from Alaska, we could stop selling you our oil or put extreemly high cost to each barrel. But we do not do things lke that, we leave those reactions to your government.

But I will add, the actions that your government is starting to wear on the people in Canada.
Tom
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Shakky
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Post by Shakky »

I see Tom's point and it is true that many Canadians are not too happy with the American government these days. Trade issues have hurt and so has the war in Iraq. Lets face it the world is not as pro-US and it was. Bush is not well liked around the world. I don't think that applies to Americans as individuals though. I would be very surprised if an American was mistreated in Canada simply because he or she was American. No way. Also many Canadians donated money to help support the people in New Orleans and even those who didn't were very upset with the situation. Again though there was a lot of Bush bashing going on in regards to how the situtation was handled after the storm hit.
Woody Williams
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Post by Woody Williams »

Folks,

I'm sorry that I posted this infommation.

I did not want this to get into a "border war" just because a border guard did what she did.

I'm sure that she had backing on this or she wouldnt have done it.

I do not know what the "work visa" entails, but I cant see how it would apply for a hunting film crew UNLESS they were doing work for a Canadian company..

This IS only one side of the story..
Woody Williams

We have met the enemy and he is us - Pogo Possum

Hunting in Indiana at [size=84][color=Red][b][url=http://huntingindiana.proboards52.com]HUNT-INDIANA[/url][/b][/color][/size]
Hi5
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Post by Hi5 »

Woody

I regret the treatment you received.

I guess we ALL on BOTH sides of the border need to remember that Customs Officers are not representatives of the Board of Trade. They are not the "Welcome Wagon". Sometimes Customs Officers wrongly interpret the rules they are expected to enforce. Sometimes they are simply jerks who are enjoying a power trip. Sometimes they have their own political agenda they are pursuing while at work.

That can happen just as easily on either side of the border. If it does, the proper thing is to ask for a supervisor...at the time the problem is unfolding. Belatedly, as now, the best approach would be to contact the customs office and ask for assistance in getting some information, and possibly, lodging a complaint.

Then ask for an explanation, and if it seems appropriate, make a FORMAL complaint.

In the meantime, make detailed notes of the entire episode. It may take some time before you get to present your complaint and being able to provide exact details may help a lot in supporting your credibility.
"Gun Control Laws"--trying to nag criminals into submission.
chessy
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Post by chessy »

WELL i am shocked :shock: i would have still been at boarder.... i would have wanted to see her superviser ... i would have went the whole ten yards.... i know we take our boarders serious.... but the bad americans spend alot of bucks big bucks here... they spend more money in one day then 20 canadains... .. i would have went ballistic on her... woody i hope you get to the bottom of this mess.... please keep me informed as to the out come.... pm me if you have to ...
thanks

jason
jay73
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Post by jay73 »

jh45gun wrote: I have seen the sporting crowds from Canada BOO the USA teams why I do not know that smaked to me of poor sportsmanship.
Are you for real bud?

If you're talking about hockey I think you missed something. :? You got yourself bass - ackwards.

I believe you meant the booing of the Canadian anthem in the states. As far as booing the team, anyone is going to boo the opposing team when they step out. An anthem is another story.

As far as the rest of the story, the custom people have to do what they have to do. They have been scrutinized in the past for not doing enough. I don't blame them.

Jay
TPM
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Post by TPM »

I feel bad about the situation but I really have a hard time feeling sorry for anything to do with bowhunters.net. For the most part they're very anti-crossbow. :wink:
Tom
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Post by Tom »

jh45gun and anyone else, I am sorry if you took my words as being in a boarder war. All I was trying to do was point out possible reasons for the actions of the custom's agent. Then I just tried to point out to jh45gun that we are not anti-american here in Canada. Trouble is, your government is trying to bash us Canadians so people like you think we are starting to hate you, so that their actions that are breaking trade agreements are more acteptable to the american public.

Your government will feed reports to your news media that will help them in this cause, and the media jumps all over it just because it will cause an uproar. Everyone knows that the news media wants anything that will cause an uproar because that will cause thier ratings to go up and when ratings go up, so does their earnings. I have nothing against the american public, I have many American friends and many internet friends.

Trouble is that most people gain their knowledge from the news media or government media releases which generally only partly true but spun (spin doctored) to get people to think in the dirrection they want them too think. Your comment
Just one more thought I would suppose there are a lot more Americans that go to Canada to fish and hunt than Canadians come over here. If the shoe was on the other foot would you feel the same way Tom? I think I would.
I believe that if we had the actual numbers you would be surprised. Yes there are many americans that come here to hunt and fish, but there is also many Canadians that go to the US to hunt and fish (but the CWD and importation laws have stopped many) lately. There are also alot more canadians that go south in the winter spending months not days. Now, with the canadian dollar higher in value, it is not as prosperous for the americans to come to Canada.

I also believe that if you watched a larger portion of sports you will find that there are way more iccidents of Americans disrestecting Canadians at sporting events then the other way around. Prime example was in Atlanta when they flew the Canadian Flag upside down during the national anthem during the world series. Many times booing our national anthem. Yes it has happened in Canada as well, but I believe you will find that they mostly happened in Quebec. I remember last year in the hockey playoffs, the canadian media was constantly deploring the actions of the americans then telling the canadians NOT TO BOO THE AMERICAN ANTHEM. .

Woody I also do not know what is involved in the work permit part of it, but I do know that it is almost impossible for film crews (movies, comercials, ect) to bring in americans to work, they have to hire Canadians just like a Canadian film maker would have to hire Americans to work in the USA. I have watched a movie that was filmed right next to my mom's house and talked to them every day (the food truck parked in front of my dad's garage, bo the food was great and plentiful :shock: .) and I learned alot from them.

I am sorry that they did have problems trying to cross the boarder. But they were not banned as they claimed. They had an option to continue on thier hunt but just not with their film equipment or work computer (they even said that). They chose to forgo their hunt because they did not have their equipment, this tells me that this hunt was not a personal hunt, but a business excursion that had not gone through the proper channels.

Again I am sorry that they had problems.
Tom
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BUCKSHOT
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Humm!

Post by BUCKSHOT »

Woody is sitting at home smiling, like usual when he contributes a post like this!
Start the fire and let the boys stoke it!
Way to go Woody! :lol: :wink:
Last edited by BUCKSHOT on Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Enjoy the Harvest!
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