This should remind all of us... hunting is a privilege!
Here is a sobering reminder of who is out there hunting in your area.
Bobby Jost
Wary hiker killed in woods
Criminal negligence charge laid
Forest near Tottenham a favourite spot
Nov. 8, 2006. 07:30 AM
JIM WILKES
STAFF REPORTER
Marianne Schmid loved to walk the leafy paths of the lush public forest near her home west of Tottenham.
But the 67-year-old hiker never made the daily trek during hunting season, her family says, because she was wary of hunters shooting at deer or wild turkeys that amble through the pines a 45-minute drive north of Toronto.
Schmid didn't know hunting season had begun on Monday, and, despite wearing a red sweater and jeans, was shot dead by a hunter who thought she was wild game wandering the woods that afternoon.
Her husband, Walter, who was worried when she didn't return home, took his 2-year-old grandson for a ride to find her and ended up identifying her body in the back of an ambulance by the side of the road.
Police last night charged a Keswick man with criminal negligence causing death in the incident.
"She was my everything," Schmid said yesterday in the stone and wood home he and Marianne built themselves in the late 1960s, even as she was pregnant with son Toby, now 36.
"It's stupidity," he said.
"We'll never — never — recover what was destroyed by that one shot."
Schmid said his wife had phoned the OPP just last week, "because she had a scare with someone shooting" in the forest.
He said she stopped walking in the forest when hunting season began each autumn. But because the dates of the season change from year to year, they didn't realize it began on Monday.
He said she had encountered bow hunters earlier this fall, when their hunting season was in full swing.
"But they shoot at closer range, so they can see their targets more clearly."
Officers from the Nottawasaga detachment of Ontario Provincial Police were called to the Simcoe Regional Forest late Monday afternoon to answer a call about a woman who was injured. They found Schmid dead from a single gunshot wound to the abdomen, deep in the forest off the 2nd Concession of Adjala-Tosorontio Township, north of Highway 9, a few kilometres east of Mono Mills.
"I keep hearing that this was a tragic hunting accident," said Schmid's son, Toby. "This wasn't an accident.
"A tree falling on her would be an accident. I thought the cardinal rule for responsible hunters was that you positively identify your target before you pull the trigger."
Walter agreed.
"We don't understand how anybody could confuse her with a deer," he said, standing on the second floor of the family home, at the end of a long driveway that winds through a woodlot of pine, cedar and fir on the 3rd Concession.
"We're not against hunting, but this is not a hunting accident."
Walter came to Canada from Germany in 1957 and Marianne followed the next year, even though she was too young to emigrate alone under German law.
"She snuck away to Canada to marry me," he said, summoning a small smile. "We built this house together. She cut the stone herself and carried it up a ladder when she was pregnant to build the chimney.
"We still had big plans, very big plans. Everything we did was because of her."
Schmid said his wife drove to the forest each day for a hike along the path that loops through the trees. He took a video of her playing in the fallen leaves with 2-year-old grandson Max just moments before she put the youngster down for a nap and headed off for her walk on Monday.
"She was wearing a red turtleneck sweater — red of all colours," Toby said. "She left her coat behind because it was such a nice day.
"And they make it mandatory for hunters to wear orange vests."
Walter said his wife was "a real jock."
"I couldn't keep up with her," he said
Toby said his mother was an avid scuba diver, hiker, skier, kayaker and windsurfer.
"She could leave young punks behind on the water — myself included," he said.
The last fatal hunting incident in Ontario was in December 2004, when a 62-year-old hunter shot two men as they set up decoys near Kohler, outside Hamilton.
The hunter apparently mistook them for ducks, despite the bright orange hat and coats they wore, required under Ontario law.
Hunting accidents in Ontario have dramatically declined over the years — there were just two in the province last year and neither was deadly.
But Robert Pye, spokesperson for the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters, said the fatal shooting is "deeply disturbing ... it's just a shocking incident."
"Hunters in Ontario are required to have a minimum of 20 hours of firearms and hunter education safety training and over a million people have gone through the training (in the past 50 years)," Pye said.
"That's why we are so shocked, because hunting has enjoyed an incredible safety track record, particularly the last 10 years or so. The safety record for hunters has been near flawless for the last three or four years."
A Ministry of Natural Resources official noted the deer hunt in the area where Schmid was shot is designated a so-called "controlled hunt" where hunters can only use shotguns, firing slugs rather than pellets, or black powder weapons whose projectiles don't travel as far as a bullet fired from a high-power hunting rifle.
Frederick Paul Thomas, 60, of Keswick, faces charges of criminal negligence causing death and careless use of a firearm. He is to appear in Bradford court Dec. 21.
FILES FROM RICHARD BRENNAN AND VICTORIA KENT
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Conten ... 9048863474
Tragedy by means of Stupidity
Moderator: Excalibur Marketing Dude
Very tragic indeed. That is the reason I stay out of the woods during the shotgun season. It is only a week here and there must be a lot of "pressure" one puts on himself because of the short season.
This is a devistating loss for that family. I was, however, glad to read that they did not group all hunters in with the shooter. There are all kinds of folks who hunt, with all levels of skill, experience, patience, and physical condition. You can't blame everyone for the actions of one. It would be like saying that no one should be allowed to drive because one motorist killed someone while driving.
I lost a sister to someone's negligence (falling asleep at the wheel), I don't know what I would do if I lost someone else in my family to carelessness. Nothing that person says can ease the pain.
This is a devistating loss for that family. I was, however, glad to read that they did not group all hunters in with the shooter. There are all kinds of folks who hunt, with all levels of skill, experience, patience, and physical condition. You can't blame everyone for the actions of one. It would be like saying that no one should be allowed to drive because one motorist killed someone while driving.
I lost a sister to someone's negligence (falling asleep at the wheel), I don't know what I would do if I lost someone else in my family to carelessness. Nothing that person says can ease the pain.
I hunt for memories, the meat's a bonus!
After more than 40 years observing other hunters in the field, I can say the observation I made many years ago about wearing camouflage when hunting is to protect the hunter from other hunters. I've witnessed people shoot livestock in open fields that looked nothing like the game being sought. I've read to many times about hunters being shot wearing orange. I believe the reason is they shoot at what the minds eye tells them is game. This is reaction shooting and what it is not is instinctive shooting. Because they can see movement they shoot. This is a sad but vary old story, told year after year across the lands that hunt. Get rid of these stupid orange clothing laws. Make it mandatory for new hunters to hunt with hunters of five or more years of field experience. No, this will not stop all such incidence of firearm deaths, it will go a long way in helping.
Al
I've heard that idea before from other guys whose judgement I respect. However, wearing camoflage isn't ANY assurance that you would be invisible to the idiot hunter out there. If you can be seen, then it seems logical to me that it would be safer to be a color that no game animal shows.
Even if it were possible to be totally invisible, there is still the "sound shooter" out there. I've had the pleasure of being on the receiving end of that kind of stunt. Thankfully the shot missed me.
I've heard that idea before from other guys whose judgement I respect. However, wearing camoflage isn't ANY assurance that you would be invisible to the idiot hunter out there. If you can be seen, then it seems logical to me that it would be safer to be a color that no game animal shows.
Even if it were possible to be totally invisible, there is still the "sound shooter" out there. I've had the pleasure of being on the receiving end of that kind of stunt. Thankfully the shot missed me.
"Gun Control Laws"--trying to nag criminals into submission.
I read this on the internet this morning. So sad.
It all comes down to making 100% sure what your target is and what your back-stop is.
Never shoot at a sound you can't identify visually.
It all comes down to making 100% sure what your target is and what your back-stop is.
Never shoot at a sound you can't identify visually.
[img]http://photobucket.com/albums/b38/allan_w_/th_tinybuck3hj1.gif[/img]
Exocet your options and exCalibur8 your sights.
Exocet your options and exCalibur8 your sights.
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Grizzly Adam
- Posts: 5701
- Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:36 pm
- Location: Decatur County, Indiana
Unbelievable. What a senseless tragedy.
The shooter should certainly be prosecuted and sternly punished for this crime. There is no excuse adequate to explain this away as a "mistake." Because it is broadly accepted that a hunter must positively visually confirm his target before even readying a firearm to shoot, this can be understood as nothing less than negligent homicide, perhaps reckless murder.
That man should serve a long, long sentence and lose all hunting and firearm privileges for life. He should pay the penalty for his action, and others should see the result.
Don't misunderstand me; I don't mean to be harsh and unfeeling. I simply believe this is a crime, is inexcusable, and that justice is demanded. I am sorry for all concerned. The family of the dead woman and the shooter are in my prayers.
What a shame.
Grizz
The shooter should certainly be prosecuted and sternly punished for this crime. There is no excuse adequate to explain this away as a "mistake." Because it is broadly accepted that a hunter must positively visually confirm his target before even readying a firearm to shoot, this can be understood as nothing less than negligent homicide, perhaps reckless murder.
That man should serve a long, long sentence and lose all hunting and firearm privileges for life. He should pay the penalty for his action, and others should see the result.
Don't misunderstand me; I don't mean to be harsh and unfeeling. I simply believe this is a crime, is inexcusable, and that justice is demanded. I am sorry for all concerned. The family of the dead woman and the shooter are in my prayers.
What a shame.
Grizz
How can one say "I mistook her for a deer"?
Was it a doe? How many points did it have? What part of the deer did he aim for?
What a senseless loss.
Was it a doe? How many points did it have? What part of the deer did he aim for?
What a senseless loss.
You can take the man out of the woods but you can't take the woods out of the man.
"Celebrate your harvest with a Bloodtrail Ale(tm)!!"
"It CAN Be Done!"
"Celebrate your harvest with a Bloodtrail Ale(tm)!!"
"It CAN Be Done!"
100% sure of anything? Death and taxes! I type out a long response to this before and hit the wrong key and lost it. These are my observations. Perhaps you can relate of stories you have read in the papers of hunters killed in the field wearing camos? I can not. Stories of hunters wearing blaze orange, not a few. How about the friend of mine riding a palomino horse in his pasture, having the horse shot out from under him, this durning elk season? How many of you reading this post have seen palomino elk? With men riding them? These are my observations and mine alone. I ask no one to do anymore than to weigh and consider, if you are so inclined. I have had archery hunters nearly step on me when I was calling. If the game I pressure can not detect me except by scent what do you consider your odds oh man of detecting me (or you)? I darn sure know that I don't need camo's to hunt with to be successful. I've had eagles land within spitting distance of me and not able to detect me in and out of camas, until I moved they had no clue. So I know it's movement and scent that give me away. To Man's less careful eye it is movement only that give me away. Anyone that has any training in anti-sniper detection knows how hard it is to spot a sniper that uses proper techniques, to detect. Do not use just logic to explain why people should never be killed when wearing blaze orange, something else is going on here that we are failing to understand or see. You are most certainly correct in you belief that you can't be safe when you are in the field. Mensa Rae, is the reason you can not prosecute in a court for accidents. You have to be able to prove the criminal mind. This is a common law concept that goes to the laws of immemorial antiquity. To do anything more would be to subject the offending party to less than plenary due process. Of course prosecutors do this every day in the U.S.A. and courts that believe in subjective due process go right along with this crap. Negligence is not criminal intent. If you believe it is, then I suggest you give up driving your car. Sooner or later you will be in a collision that you will be found to be at fault. Tragedy, I agree. Can we hope to find a lesson from this and others? I hope so!Hi5 wrote:Al
I've heard that idea before from other guys whose judgement I respect. However, wearing camouflage isn't ANY assurance that you would be invisible to the idiot hunter out there. If you can be seen, then it seems logical to me that it would be safer to be a color that no game animal shows.
Even if it were possible to be totally invisible, there is still the "sound shooter" out there. I've had the pleasure of being on the receiving end of that kind of stunt. Thankfully the shot missed me.
TRAGIC
What a very tragic and senseless death. Like others have said before, when the shotgun or controlled season opens, I also leave the bush. Fortunate for me a buddy owns land on Manitoulin Island and to participate in the gun hunt, you need to be in possession of a land owner permission slip. My friend only hands out the slip to the parties in his camp and no one else. Anyone else that attempts to hunt is fair game for the Tresspass to Property Act.
Hipwader
Hipwader
AL
I guess hunter orange is an issue something like seat belts. Sometimes wearing a selt belt saves a life that otherwise would have been lost. Sometimes wearing a belt costs a life that otherwise would have been saved. Studies have apparently proved though that wearing a seatbelt, on average, saves more lives than it costs.
I don't know whether or not there has been any statistical analysis of hunter orange shootings. Does it cost more lives than it saves? Since we must wear hunter orange in our jurisdiction, I would hope so, and I also hope that the result favours wearing hunter orange!
In any case, we can agree that what happened was a tragedy, certainly for the victim's family. Maybe there is even a wider element of tragedy as well. As our population becomes increasingly urbanized I believe that the quality of hunter skills diminishes. This kind of crap becomes more likely, which stimulates more anti hunting and anti gun talk. People hunt less, and so on and on it goes......
I guess hunter orange is an issue something like seat belts. Sometimes wearing a selt belt saves a life that otherwise would have been lost. Sometimes wearing a belt costs a life that otherwise would have been saved. Studies have apparently proved though that wearing a seatbelt, on average, saves more lives than it costs.
I don't know whether or not there has been any statistical analysis of hunter orange shootings. Does it cost more lives than it saves? Since we must wear hunter orange in our jurisdiction, I would hope so, and I also hope that the result favours wearing hunter orange!
In any case, we can agree that what happened was a tragedy, certainly for the victim's family. Maybe there is even a wider element of tragedy as well. As our population becomes increasingly urbanized I believe that the quality of hunter skills diminishes. This kind of crap becomes more likely, which stimulates more anti hunting and anti gun talk. People hunt less, and so on and on it goes......
"Gun Control Laws"--trying to nag criminals into submission.
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Highlander
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:40 am
- Location: Central, Ontario
Blaze orange definitely saves lives. Once I was rabbit hunting with a friend and he shot at a hare on the other side of a ridge from me. He missed and it came my way. When I saw it, I put the bead on it and was about to shoot. Just then his blaze orange cap came up over the rise in line with the animal. I thought he out of the line of fire prior to that, twenty yards to the right. If not for that blaze cap, I might have ruined two lives, his and mine.
Needless to say, I did not shoot. But I did learn to appreciate blaze orange that day. I have just returned from a rifle hunt for deer. I wouldn't even go hunting during rifle season without blaze orange. With rifles that can kill at 500 yards, it's nice to be able to see exactly where everyone is in the hardwoods. Same with small game hunting.
Meaning no disrespect, but how does being hidden help when the guns are blazing?
As for that poor woman and her family. I have nothing but sympathy. The hunter broke the only important rule we have, he never positively identified his target. There's no excuse.
Needless to say, I did not shoot. But I did learn to appreciate blaze orange that day. I have just returned from a rifle hunt for deer. I wouldn't even go hunting during rifle season without blaze orange. With rifles that can kill at 500 yards, it's nice to be able to see exactly where everyone is in the hardwoods. Same with small game hunting.
Meaning no disrespect, but how does being hidden help when the guns are blazing?
As for that poor woman and her family. I have nothing but sympathy. The hunter broke the only important rule we have, he never positively identified his target. There's no excuse.