Ordered a new muzzleloader.... GOT IT TODAY!

wabi · Post by **wabi** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:02 pm

All the posts about blackpowder successes got me in the mood to update my deer hunting muzzleloader. I like the simplicity and ease of cleaning of the new break-action muzzleloaders, but hadn't found one I really liked. Lyman has a new one out, and since Lyman has a great reputation, I decided to try it. Called my local dealer, and he was way out of line on price. When I told him what I could buy one for he acted like he didn't believe me, and said the price was only a few more dollars than his cost. I figured (after some internet shopping) I'd better jump on it while the price was reasonable.
$286.75 shipped to my door....... now the wait for it to arrive.

With season begining next Monday, I might have it ready by then.

Normous · Post by **Normous** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:19 pm

Looks like a nice gun. Congrats on your new toy.
M/L are kinda fussy when it comes to powder/bullet/primer combinations.
This year I found "Dead Center" bullets to shoot VERY well in my TC Omega and dads TC encore.
His prefered the 260 gr. pushed by 105 grains of "Triple 7" powder ignited by Triple 7 209 primers.
My Omega printed a 100 yard 3 shot cloverleaf group under 1" from a benchrest with 110 gr 777 powder pushing a 300gr Dead Center Bullet and 777 209 primer.
Both my bucks harvested this year dropped on the spot.
Dead Center Bullets have some of the highest Ballistic Coefficients in the M/L market today, making them great long range bullets if needed. They drop less at longer ranges and retain energy better.
Good luck.

Norm

exocet · Post by **exocet** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:15 pm

I love the looks of that muzzleloader!! Does it have an external hammer? Jack.

Golden Eagle · Post by **Golden Eagle** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:18 pm

I always liked the thompson center encore 209 wabi, but it is out of my price range. I dont muzzleload very much.

Farmer · Post by **Farmer** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:47 am

Very nice looking rifle Wabi, let us know how it shoots. One last question; is it made in the USA or is it from Spain??

wabi · Post by **wabi** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:16 am

Not sure where it is made, but I'd say it's an import like other Lymans. It's a "hammerless" design. I've already called a few of my MZ hunting buddies scrounging different bullets to try in it.

tkstae · Post by **tkstae** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:38 am

Wabi: That is a nice looking rifle. I'm looking to sell my Remington in-line and upgrade to something a little newer. Please keep us informed on how it shoots. May have to give that one a serious look since I have a Lyman sidelock, I know their well made.

A.W · Post by **A.W** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:55 am

I have to try a muzzle loader some time.

groundpounder · Post by **groundpounder** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:33 pm

Muzzle loaders are a little more work to clean. I've always liked TC. Started with a TC hawkens and a couple years back got the TC black diamond. World of difference in accuracy. Black Diamond is a plain looking gun but oh what a shooter. I shoot 150gr. pyrodex pellets and the TC Shock Wave 250 grain sabot and love it. Had a friend use triple 7 and didn't like it. Can't remember his exact complaint about it but he wouldn't buy it again. I've never had any trouble out of pyrodex.

wabi · Post by **wabi** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:42 pm

groundpounder wrote:Muzzle loaders are a little more work to clean. I've always liked TC. Started with a TC hawkens and a couple years back got the TC black diamond. World of difference in accuracy. Black Diamond is a plain looking gun but oh what a shooter. I shoot 150gr. pyrodex pellets and the TC Shock Wave 250 grain sabot and love it. Had a friend use triple 7 and didn't like it. Can't remember his exact complaint about it but he wouldn't buy it again. I've never had any trouble out of pyrodex.

I use Goex blackpowder in my sidelocks. It ignites at lower temperatures (doesn't take as much spark) and is what the guns were designed to shoot. For the inlines I like Pyrodex. Tried several of the new substitute powders, and could see no huge advantage - but some did give poor accuracy. As for T-7, it's the only powder that I ever had a rust problem with! I always give muzzleloaders a very thorough cleaning then check the bore in a day or two. Used T-7 in two different guns and had light rust in both a couple days after I had thoroughly cleaned them! No damage, but definately rust on a clean patch run downbore! Got into a huge argument on a MZ forum over it. I was told to use special cleaners and it would work fine. I figured it says it cleans with water, I have cleaned with water for 35 years and had no problems, so it must not be everything it's advertised to be! Gave it away and went back to Pyrodex - no rust ever!
From all I've read there is a need to clean any muzzleloader using any powder very soon after shooting! Why spend twice the money for something that doesn't really help performance, and saves no time & labor? (and does present the possibility of bore rust and gun damage)
If I'm hunting and it's going to be a few hours after the shot before I can clean the gun, I do run a couple "spit patches" downbore followed by a couple dry patches to remove much of the fouling from the bore. As soon as possible I thoroughly clean the gun with plain old water (or sometimes with a diluted automotive anti-freeze solution), dry it very thoroughly (I blow compressed air through the bore then swab with dry patches), then a good quality gun oil. After a day or two I run a dry patch through to check for rust or fouling, then re-oil. I've never had a problem with that method and blackpowder or Pyrodex!

Vince · Post by **Vince** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:19 am

Hi Wabi,

I just got into muzzle-loading.....literally.
I've been thinking about for a few years and then accidently learned about the break-opens with 209 primers.

I bought my Traditions Pursuit LT last Wed, educated myself on loading, cleaning etc on Wed/Thursday/Friday evening and was printing 1" 3 shot groups at 100 yds on Saturday.
Of that 3 shot group, I had a flyer!!!!!!!.
I was experimenting to see what would happen if I didn't clean the barrel after each shot
My first two shots grouped at a 1/2", the third shot (without cleaning) flew 1 1/2 inch right.

I'm using 100 gr of Triple 7 pellets (2 pellets), 300 gr Hornady SST-ML sabots and can't wait for our ML season opener on Dec. 4.

With that load, i have 1100 ft/lbs of remaining energy at 200 yds and will most likely use it instead of my shotgun next year during the stogun season.

If anyone in the Ottawa area is looking at ML, this guns is inexpensive....
$219.00 CDN, easy to learn and shoot incredibly well. And it doesn't kick anywhere near my shotgun with 3" slugs.

wabi · Post by **wabi** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:40 am

Vince,
A couple years ago I bought a Traditions MZ shotgun. The manual that came with it, and a customer service rep said aftermarket choke tubes were fine to use. That was one big reason I bought that brand, because I had plenty of choke tubes that would fit it.
The barrel was damaged at the choke when using loads listed in their book! I returned it and they refused to warrant any repairs because it was an aftermarket choke tube.
I would not use or recommend any Traditions products!!!!!!!!
They may have good prices, but they DO NOT stand behind their products!
Sorry to lay this information on you after you made the purchaes, and you may have a fine rifle that will provide years of trouble-free service. But if it does malfunction, I wouldn't count of gettig it serviced bt the company that made it!

Vince · Post by **Vince** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:58 am

Hi Wabi,

No worries, you're not laying anything on me that I hadn't already taken into consideration.
Traditions doesn't even build their guns....they're imports.
I wanted to get into muzzle-loading but couldn't justify the price tag of a TC break-action....they're almost 3x the price and I didn't want to lay out that kind of cash on a first time purchase for this sport.
Worse, I have a wife!!!!!

Also, I didn't have very high expectations for a $ 219.00 muzzleloader or a $ 79.00 Bushnell scope.

So far, i'm really impressed with both and my note was for those guys/gals that want to get into the sport and not spend a huge amount of money.

Here's the bonus, if this gun or scope fails me, it'll justify that TC Encore topped with the Leupold VX-1....TO THE WIFE!!!

It's all good

Normous · Post by **Normous** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:14 pm

Some good reading on the www.hpmuzzleloading.com site for those who might be interested. Its run by Toby Bridges of Knight rifles I think.

Norm

wabi · Post by **wabi** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:43 pm

Got it today and fired a few rounds. The wood is beyond good looking - it's really nice! The trigger isn't bad, but it could be better. Has some travel in it put not too heavy to pull. I only had one style/weight of sabot to try in it, but after getting it on target I shot two that touched each other at 100 yards. My hunting buddy shot the third shot and it was about 3" from my shots, but he tends to flinch, so I figured it's probably not the rifle.

So far I'd say it is a real bargain at the price I got it for! Less than $300. shipped to me. I'll pick up some different weights/styles of bullets & sabots after gun season ends here and do some serious accuracy testing with it, but for now I'm sure any deer within 125 yards is going into the frezer!