Dacron Flemish Twist Strings

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ComfyBear
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Dacron Flemish Twist Strings

Post by ComfyBear » Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:10 pm

As some of you know, I started making Flemish Twist strings for my Excalibur crossbows, using dyneema string material. Quite a few folks liked the looks of them and ordered some.

I had one member ask if I could made some using Dacron material, so that they could be used with the older carved limbs models. Unfortunatley, I don't have any Dacron string material, so the answer was no.

I was just wondering how many folks would be interested in buying custom Flemish Twist strings made with Dacron.

If enough folks are interested, I'd be willing to buy a couple of spools of Dacron, and start making some strings for those folks.

If you've interested, please let me know. Thanks.
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xeon
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Post by xeon » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:23 pm

What are your price ranges on them? Also, hows the life expectancy compared to the Excalibur strings?

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Post by Digger » Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:42 pm

I would be intested Lou, I have 3 bows with carved tips and its getting harder to find dacron strings for them.
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Post by ComfyBear » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:21 pm

x.
Last edited by ComfyBear on Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
ComfyBear
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wabi
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Post by wabi » Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:56 pm

ComfyBear,
As you probably already know I make my own strings, so I probably won't be ordering any. I might be able to help answer a few questions, though. I prefer dacron strings for their quietness (is that a word?) and the fact that their inherant stretchiness (another word I just invented) is less stressful to bow limbs. I've been making dacron strings for my Excaliburs for several years now, but I mostly make the endless loop type simply because it's faster & easier. I have made flemish twist strings from dacron, and they hold up very well. You'll probably wear out several servings before you wear out the loops. The big disadvantage to dacron flemish twist strings is the stretch. Not a huge problem, but they will stretch and require adjustment (twist them up to shorten them) several times initially, and even after they have seen quite a bit of use. I started with a Vixen, and have used as little as 26 strands of B-50 dacron, but went to 30 to be safe. The string was shot almost every day that first summer & fall, and after the first 3 or 4 adjustments to the length "settled in" and went for a few weeks. I'm sure outside factors such as air temperature, the time it's left under stress (with the bow cocked), and other variables will make a differance, but it will probably need adjusted every month or so if you leave the bow strung and shoot a lot.
That's another thing I like about Excalibur - it's very easy to make little adjustments such as string length (brace height) to "tweak" your bow for it's best performance.
From the pictures posted of your strings, I'd say they are top quality, and good looking to boot! Matter of fact, I might just buy one in green/black to try on my Phoenix. Sure would be a lot easier than making it myself :lol:
wabi

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Post by ComfyBear » Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:17 pm

Wabi, thanks for the info, it's very helpful.

Regarding the endless loop strings, I know that they're faster and easier to make. However, I love the look of Flemish Twist strings, and don't mind the extra work it takes to make them. I find they wear like iron, especially the loops, and are easier to tweak and twist for brace height.

I know that Dacron stretches more than both Flightflight and Dyneema, and know that I have to make the string a bit shorter than my dyneema strings, to allow for that stretch, but wasn't too sure how much shorter. From what you say I would imagine one inch shorter should do it.
Thanks again.
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Post by wabi » Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:59 am

Actually I don't make mine a whole lot shorter. 1/2" should be plenty! The new Excal strings are 36" for fastflight and 35.4" for dacron I believe. The one I installed on my buddy's new Phoenix at Christmas was too short initially with no twist! Of course it stretched in after a few days, but I prefer to have a little twist in even a new string. I usually try for at least one complete turn every 3" or so as a minimum twist, which would translate to about 12 twists in an Excal string. I set my endless loop jig very close to 36" for dacron, which allows me to get some twist on a new string. The flemish twist will stretch a little in the loop "braid" at first of course, so 35.5 to 35.75 would be what I would try for.
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Post by wabi » Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:24 pm

I must correct myself :roll:
I made up a dacron flemish twist string just to see if I still could, and I was wrong on the length. Because of the extra stretch in the loops when pressure is initially applied it needs to be 34.5" to 35" before it's put under any load. I made one 35.5" and it was too long, so I re-made it and ended up with 34.5" without being stretched. Figured I'd messed up but I put it on the bow and it worked out very close to perfect after a few shots! With no twisting it was just past the maximum brace height mark, and after a couple of shots I was able to twist it 6 or 8 times and still get it back on the bow. After a few more shots it's right at the maximum brace height, but it will stretch more.
BTW - I had forgotten until I shot it, but they are quieter than the endless loop type. I have no DB's on my Phoenix since I like to be able to unstring without fooling with taking pads on/off, and I'd say it's quieter than a fastflight string with the DB's & pads on. I may go back to the flemish twist after all.
wabi

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Post by TYE » Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:28 pm

Howcome the switch from 24 to 28 strands?

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wabi
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Post by wabi » Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:55 pm

Tye,
Dacron requires a few more strands because of the strength of the material. I now use 30 strand in all my dacron crossbow strings. A dacron string is heavier and bulkier than fastflight, but that is also one reason it's quieter. Dacron would be rated as somewhere around 50# test if it were fishing line. In my tests it usually breaks at the loop around my spring scale hook at somewhere just under 40#, but I took that as an indication that my testing method was far less than scientific. :lol:
One old method of figuring string strength for a bow was to make it 10 to 12 times the draw weight. A 50# bow would need somewhere around a 500# test string, or 10 strands of dacron for target shooting and 12 for hunting. A Vixen would require 1500# strength or 30 strands of dacron. Since all the Excals use the same limbs they use the same strings, so 30 strands should be somewhere close to minimum. I've been using 30 strands since I had a Vixen and it has worked on my Exocet and Phoenix with no problems at all.
Realy a lot of guesswork went into figuring out the needed strands, but it seems to have worked out well. :lol:
wabi

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Post by TYE » Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:56 pm

I was talking about the fast flight switch. He said instead of 24 strands on his fast flight strings he's using 28 now.

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Post by ComfyBear » Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:14 pm

Tye wrote:How come the switch from 24 to 28 strands?
Tye,
The reason is that after making the 24 strand string I noticed that the even though the dyneema material is stronger, it's also lighter than the FF, so I decided to experiment and made two strings using 26 and 28 strands respectively, and they both turned out great.

Even though performance and speed wise these two strings are similar and comparable to the 24 strand string, I felt that they might be a tad quieter, without affecting speed.

Also, when compared to the factory FFF string, the 28 strand is still a bit lighter, but just as fast, if not faster. However, there's no doubt in my mind that it's far superior in quality and durability. The 24 strand strings are great strings, and more than adequate, but wanting to produce the best strings possible, I decided to make all my strings using 28 strands.
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shurite44
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Post by shurite44 » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:32 pm

Hey Comfy, I will take a fast flight dyneema string or two. Can I paypal you.

It needs to be strong enough for an emax.

Gary

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Post by ComfyBear » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:06 pm

Shurite44, you have a PM.
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False prophets will only lead one astray

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Post by shurite44 » Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:22 pm

ComfyBear wrote:Shurite44, you have a PM.
Yep, I got it, sent you a couple one has a funny story. I am going to take a couple, I want you to send me the exact amount for two. I will paypal.

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