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Crossbow Hunting

Moderators: Bill T, Excalibur Marketing Dude

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ComfyBear
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Post by ComfyBear » Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:39 pm

Cal, and anyone else, whether the Middleton xbow is good, bad or indifferent is not the issue here. You should certainly understand that here's a product which was copied, in design, if not in quality. Then an attempt is made to promote the said product on the Excalibur website, which is paid for and maintained by Bill T. Not only is this an attempt at larceny, but it's adding insult to injury, .

I feel Bill T. has shown a lot of character and has been more than tolerant to even allow discussion on this topic, and it's time that we show some respect
ComfyBear
Micro Axe 340, Matrix 380, Matrix 355, Matrix 350, Exocet 200
ComfyBear Custom Strings
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Cal
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Location: Ontario, Canada

Post by Cal » Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:04 pm

Guys, please remember, I DIDN'T start the other thread or anything. Just asking a question. I see I rubbed some the wrong way! I see it's a "taboo" subject here. Will try to remember that in the future. I will continue to ask for help, when needed, as well as join in conversations, but will keep my "purchasing" interest to myself.

crazyfarmer
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Post by crazyfarmer » Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:12 pm

Bill T wrote: You ask why the post was deleted? Simply because I will not in any way allow that company to use my website to advertise it's products. Am I bitter about their blatent copy of our product? Damn right! I must say though that if they want to copy us they could at least do a decent job of it.
The rules here are pretty simple and I try to let the forum be as much as possible. As I've said in the past, you are welcome to talk about other crossbows here, but this one strikes a nerve with us and we won't allow any promotion in any way of their products.
well said;) its ya'lls forum and you can do with it as you please. Im a excal fan untill I die so it doesnt matter what new thing comes out :lol: :D

R.J.
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Post by R.J. » Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:45 pm

Promoting a compeditors bow on another crossbow manf. host website and not thinking you might ruffle some feathers .... :lol: :lol:

Cal / ch312 .... Probably best to go to the Middleton site and get your answers there ?

This site has always been a good place for picking up info on all crossbows in the past .... but the Middleton model has crossed the line , in my opinion ...

I know guys that have them , and that's great ... but I shot one and gave my honest opinion of it awhile ago as well .... now maybe it was a defective one ? I don't know , but from what my buddy and I saw we decided , best to steer clear of them ...
I shot one earlier this fall ... I was not impressed ... it vibrated when I shot it " scared the crap out of me " !

I checked to make sure that everything was tight , and it was ... I asked the guy what the extra vibration was and he said it was the " awsome speed " ... then he went on to trash talk the Excaliburs for " lack of penetration etc. ... I walked away after that ...

My honest opinion of them after handling one and shooting one ...

They are an Excalibur knock off , but without the quality , fit and finish ...
And I wasn't kidding ... I was checking it out for a buddy that was thinking of buying one .... now , I don't know if they have improved since then , but the one we shot just " wasn't right " ... a couple of people shot my Exocet 200 at the same time and could really see the difference ..

I'm being totally honest and unbiased wit my review ....

Look at it this way ... my main concern I guess is protecting my interest , and from what I saw I was concerned wether the bow would stand up ?

I'm fast forwarding , thinking ... man if one of these blows up and injures somebody .... all we will hear is " crossbow blows up and injures shooter " , then " all crossbows are bad " :evil: ... and then somebody is attacking my hobby ...

There are more well made crossbows on the market .... but the Middleton I shot didn't measure up ! ... Again ... maybe they upgraded since I shot that one , but that is the experience I had with them ...

Your experience with them may vary and that's great ! .... but to come on the Excal site and post praise of a direct compeditor .... especially one that cuts as close to home as this one , then act surprised about the response , is laughable ! :lol: :lol: :lol:

My $0.02
See Ya. ... R.J. > " Remember , Trophies are measured by the time and energy expended to get them , not the size or quantity of the quarry "

Woody Williams
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Post by Woody Williams » Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:15 pm

The first time that we even heard of Middleton on there was when a newbie came on there and started putting down Excalburs and saying how great this new crossbow that looked amazingly like an Excalbur.

The BS meter pegged out for most of us.

Most of us all believed that this guy was pushing Middleton product at Excalibur's expense. Maybe a spammer.

I've never seen a Middleton in person, but the pictures do look like an Excalibur. If it is a copy, then Bill has every right to be whizzed off and delete any reference to that bow..

This is an Excalibur site and I think you will find a strong loyalty to Excalibur here. You will also find the same thing for TenPoint at their site.

There are numerous threads and posts about various other crossbows, including praise for some. None of these, that I am aware of, have ever been deleted.

In fact I just posted a couple of pictures of turkeys my son and myself took with a TenPoint QX4. I hunt with both an Exomag and a TenPoint.

My opinion is - Bill thinks this is a copy and is pizzed and wont allow anyone to give it any press at all on HIS site. I don't blame him.
Woody Williams

We have met the enemy and he is us - Pogo Possum

Hunting in Indiana at [size=84][color=Red][b][url=http://huntingindiana.proboards52.com]HUNT-INDIANA[/url][/b][/color][/size]

huntman
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Post by huntman » Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:17 pm

Cal wrote:
huntman wrote:I think Bill T has a valid point, and i agree with you 100%!!!
I'm missing something here. The point that IF you speak highly of the competition, YOUR WRONG, but if you speak down about the competition, it's OK????

If you didn't see the thread that was removed, you CAN NOT reply on it SORRY!
Having said that CAL i think the removing of the thread allows for NO disscussion of the competition and thats OK by all! I am a business man myself, I think Bill's reaction to this issue was polite and professional. End of story!

BigUgly
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Post by BigUgly » Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:20 pm

Way to step up and say your piece Bill T. another reason I love your company and your personality. Years ago I had my scope from the right stuff package go faulty. My dealer said we'll send it in and you'll get a new one I thought yeah right. Next thing I'm getting a brand new scope installed on my xbow. Great service to a part Excalibur has no control over, where else????

Jim C
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Location: southern Ohio

Post by Jim C » Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:33 pm

I have been around crossbows for a long long time
I am fortunate-I can afford lots of bows
I also was a staff shooter for a big pro shop then we ran one for 5 years.

I can tell you we dealt with Mathews, Hoyt, Martin, PSE, Sky, and Excalibur out of our shop along with PAPES and LANCASTER

all top flight companies


many of you know I am a big fan of the late great Sky archery company. Though I didn't meet Ann and Earl until 1995 they treated me almost like family. They took care of me and the kids I coach with all sorts of great deals to outright free stuff Those people and that company were the best of the best. Bill and Kath are in the same league
TNC and ACF Member
NFAA and NAA Certified Coach

shurite44
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Post by shurite44 » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:48 pm

If Bill says it is junk I believe him. Fire at your own risk.

ch312
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Location: Brantford, Ont

Post by ch312 » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:59 pm

ah but RJ, i wasnt asking any questions :wink: i could really care less how fast or loud the middleton bow is.

my opinion is that on this forum (and all others) people should be able to talk about whatever that site is about. in this case, it is crossbows. we can freely discuss any brand of crossbow here except for the middleton bow?

excalibur shouldnt fear middleton and ban all talk about it on this site. it should allow its users to talk about it for new users wishing to buy their first crossbow. they will see the reports on middleton bows and likely pick an excalibur instead. :wink:

Digger
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Post by Digger » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:14 am

my opinion is that on this forum (and all others) people should be able to talk about whatever that site is about. in this case, it is crossbows. we can freely discuss any brand of crossbow here except for the middleton bow?

excalibur shouldnt fear middleton and ban all talk about it on this site. it should allow its users to talk about it for new users wishing to buy their first crossbow. they will see the reports on middleton bows and likely pick an excalibur instead.
Thats where you are wrong.I have been on thes forum since 2001 and this has been private site run by Excalibur and if Bill T doesn't want a topic put on his web site,he has the ability to delete. You can put it some where else or grit your teeth and say zip. You could also say I wont be treated this way never come back. 8) :( :x
Digger
2008 Y25 Relayer #593 Boo string, lumizone
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2-1992 Wolverine
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T.P. Titan TL4, acudraw 50, Varizone
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ch312
Posts: 710
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Post by ch312 » Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:27 am

Digger wrote:
my opinion is that on this forum (and all others) people should be able to talk about whatever that site is about. in this case, it is crossbows. we can freely discuss any brand of crossbow here except for the middleton bow?

excalibur shouldnt fear middleton and ban all talk about it on this site. it should allow its users to talk about it for new users wishing to buy their first crossbow. they will see the reports on middleton bows and likely pick an excalibur instead.
Thats where you are wrong.I have been on thes forum since 2001 and this has been private site run by Excalibur and if Bill T doesn't want a topic put on his web site,he has the ability to delete. You can put it some where else or grit your teeth and say zip. You could also say I wont be treated this way never come back. 8) :( :x
easy there tough guy :roll: :roll: :roll:

thats the annoying thing about some forums. you arent allowed to state your opinion unless it agrees with what the majority think or else guys like you pipe up. ever heard of a thing called constructive criticism?

Grizzly Adam
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Post by Grizzly Adam » Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:27 am

I don't think there's any problem on this forum with allowing members to state their mind; this is best forum I've ever encountered. It isn't policed by Bill or anyone else ... I have found it to be largely self-regulated. When it's necessary, the moderators take care of problems. I've never seen them do it when it was unreasonable.

The only thing I had to say about Middleton was that Derek answered an email of mine quickly and was polite and informative. I said so because he was. Some others got similar responses, some didn't.

What I didn't say was that I wrote Bill T. a PM right after my communication with Middleton, because one of the things I had asked them about was their claim that there was no need to worry about their limbs in the heat. Because I live in the sweltering south, and bow season here can easily be in the mid-nineties, I was interested in whether it was a problem.

When Bill answered me, he made it clear that this claim was an attempt to "badmouth" Excals, and that there had never been a problem and there was no reason to worry. His take on the Middleton issue then was the same as it is now.

I trust him. I think the Middleton design is just a little too close in appearance to avoid the claim that it's a "knock-off." And I don't get the feeling that he'd run down Middletons just to avoid competition, because I don't think he's in any danger from them.

Cal, I think it would be best if you trust us too. We're not misleading you, and we're not blindly loyal to Excalibur. The owners and the company are everything we say they are ... their reputation came from hard work, dedication, and kindness to customers. We're not kissing up to them; just relating our various experiences.

Bill provides us with this excellent forum, and we're grateful. He should have some say in what goes, and we respect that.
Grizz

sumner4991
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Post by sumner4991 » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:18 am

Every company needs to take the competition seriously, no matter how bad their current product design. Taking the competition seriously makes your product better. It's the nature of competition.

However, if I were Bill T., I would be more concerned about the quality of the Right Stuff package because my experience has me to believe it is not the right stuff for the Exomax. Matter of fact, it may be great for a 175# draw . . .anything over that, it's marginal. Target tips, no problem, broadheads are the issue. I bought this to hunt with, I'm not a 3-D guy. Also, he needs a better serving on the string. The higher draws really eat up the servings.

Anyway, the broadheads do not group consistantly with the set-up in the Right Stuff Package for the Exomax at 30 yards and out. As you have all stated, the lower draw bows are just as good and you are right. You are right because the faster speeds aren't optimally used. May as well be slower. Therefore, there is no need to build a faster bow until you build a better bolt/broadhead. No need to get on that Concord if it's not headed to where you want to go. :?

As far as discussing competitor products on this forum. I truly believe Bill T. benefits from the discussions. He gets all of us looking into and testing these products and gets feed back for free(well, almost free . . .there's some cost to maintaning this forum). He also gets all of us Excalibur lovers to defend his products for free.

I love my Exomax and shoot it almost everyday. As with every product out there, there is potiential for improvement . . .no matter how slight.
I'd rather wear out than rust out.
Perception trumps intention.

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Shakky
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Post by Shakky » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:53 am

Since I joined I have seen alot of posts talking about the competition and I can't recall them being deleted. This Middleton bow looks like a copy to me. If I were interested in it I'm sure I could get info. on it from some other source other then this forum.

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