O/T Muzzleloader Help

[raydaughety]

I know this is a crossbow forum but I need some advise on a good load for my CVA Optima pro. I've been shooting hornady 250gr. sst (lock and load sabbot) with 130grns of pyrodex triple 7. This is a good load but every deer (2) that I've shot with it, they were at 150+yds and both deer ran along ways before any blood was found. Need a load that'll drop em a little quicker.

[crazyfarmer]

Ray, this is hit or miss here... at 150 yards its gonna be hard to say what any combo will do. My max shot ill ever take with mine is 100 yards. I have the Knight Revolution and only shoot 100grains and a 250 TC superglide shockwave sabot which is very similair to that SST.

At that range, you want that polymer tip to be accurate. The best bleeding sabots ive seen are the Barnes MZ ones. They run 21.99-23.99 for 24 of them and up close they spread and make a nasty wound! Ive shot deer at 20 yards that didnt bleed untill 75 yards down the trail. It all depends on the shot. Ive shot some at 20 yards that bleed like a stuck pig LOL. My farthest shot to this date is 65 yards though Thats probably on 40-50 deer also. I'd be iffy on stepping up to 150grains of powder also. I think your's would handle it, but I dont see the need. Wish I could help ya more man but its a 50/50 call on far shots and how well they bleed. Maybe set a range of 100yards max this year

if you want to drop them quick, shoot them in the spine, but its a 1-2inch group you need to shoot at 150 though Ive heart shot deer that went well over 100 yards before dropping.. it all depends on how pumped the deer is after the shot

[hawg hunter]

Sir I am assuming that your shooting a 50 cal because I don't know that particular gun. I've been shooting muzzleloaders sice 1970 and have hunted with them since that time. In my opinion the very best bullet for killing any thing on this continent is Barnes.X for Muzzleloaders. They expand every time and most of the time they knock deer off their feet, have recovered only 2 bullets .1 from a 400#+ hog shot in the front of the shoulder and recovered the bullet in the offside ham just under the skin, th range was about 120 yds. The second was a rear raking shot on a bull elk at 75yds. The bullet entered behind the second rib and lodged just udr the skin on the pt of the shoulder. Both animals dropped in their tracks. The only problem is they are a bit pricy. Ive killed over a 100 animals with these bullets and have lost none. Most of the time if you have to trail the trail starts on the exit side . These bullets retain most of their weight. 130 grains of any powder is alot. the big sharps in 50 never used that much. 100 grs. or less will get the job done and it doesn't hurt.

[Horizontal Hunter]

Ray,

I have found that the Muzzleloader forum on hunting net is very active and full of great info.

Here is the link:

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/default.aspx

Bob

[Rich]

Ray,

I own 2 Knights (Wolverine/MK-85) and a TC Omega, all guns have shoot the TC Mag Sabots very well. The past 2 seasons I have used the TC Shockwave, the exit wounds have been devistating, I have seen softball sized holes in the exiting shoulder. I agree with the others, I find no need to use over 100 of powder. My 2 Knights are pre-150 grain guns and I have killed deer out to 185 yards in your NC beanfields. PLus those magnum loads have to do a number on your back.

Rich

[alf7555]

I called CVA about my Kodiak Pro Magnum . They said optimum load was 100gr. Triple 7 (2 pellets) and the 225gr CVA bullets in aerotip. MY gun is a 45cal. but 50cal. should be about the same. In the 45cal. that load is the flattest shooting load , and high energy.

[raydaughety]

Thanks guy, I just spoke with someone that has written many articles on the subject and said the same as you have. TOO MUCH POWDER. I'm gonna try 100gr 777 with the barnes bullet bullets. I appreciate your help as usual.

[Normous]

Some great bullet info at www.hpmuzzleloading.com
My bullet of choice is by Dead Center
240, 250, 260 and 300 gr do very well out of my TC Omega using 100-110 gr 777 loose powder (weighed) for uniformity. I also convertrd my breech to accept CCI 400 small rifle primers. Accuracy @100 is between 3/8" and 1 1/3" using the DC bullets and shot from a bench rest.

Norm

[wabi]

Sounds like you're on the right track. Back off a bit on the powder and stuff a Barnes Expander down on top of it! I've shot a couple deer with the Barnes bullets, and seen 5 or 6 others shoot deer with them. Tracking is usually difficult. You have to move the dead deer to find the tracks it left where it was standing when you shot.
One of the deer I shot dropped right in it's tracks, the other did a 180º turn (swapped ends) and dropped on the spot! Both of those was with a 300 grain Barnes MZ (expander) bullet & 100 grains of Pyrodex, one at 80 yards and the other about 100 yards. The new muzzleloader I bought last year seems to like lighter bullets better, so I switched to 250 grain Barnes Expanders. Hopefully I will report the results for deer hunting in a few months. (If I don't fill the freezer using the Excalibur first! )

[Doe Master]

Ray I`m no pro but out of my cva optima I`m using the 250 gr. sst in front of 110 gr of 777 .At 100 yards I am about 1.5 high and maintaining about a 2 inch group with three shots .

[Cossack]

My Encore PH does it's best with the 250 Barnes or Shockwave and 90 grains of LOOSE Triple Seven. If you weigh the pellets you'll probably find that they don't weight 50 exactly grains. Those I weighed ranged from 46 to 48 grains. Since uniformity of pressure is very critical to accuracy, weighing the charge does make a difference. For the same reason the seating pressure is likewise important. I've put a circle of masking tape around my ramrod and try to seat the charge to the same point each time. Last, the lighter loads (all that's really necessary for deer) tend to be more accurate because they recoil less, which generally makes the shooter a better shot.

[raydaughety]

Don't you guys know me by now. I'll worry myself to death over this until I return from my VA. hunt.

[JDMiller]

I've got the Optima 209 Mag with the 26 " barrel....I believe the Pro has the 29"barrel... I think everything else is the same. I use 2-50gr. pellets of 777 pushing a 245 gr Powerbelt hollow point. The Optima's can handle 3 - 50gr pellets or 100 grains of loose powder max according to CVA but I found two pellets to be what performs best with this combination. Only X-amount of powder will burn...even with the 29" barrel.... the rest is just harder on your shoulder and goes unburned.

I'm sighted 3" high at 100yds and it gets back on "0" a little beyond 175 with plenty of KE for whitetails at 200yds... this would be my max anyway with a muzzleloader. As far as Powerbelts... some like them ..some hate them. I've had good luck & above average accuracy with them. One thing to remember... balistic tipped bullets are your best performers on targets....for hunting and average ranges... sometimes they punch a hole without expanding.... hence long blood trails and disapointment.... regardless of the brand. A good hollowpoint or expandable like Powerbelt or Barnes would be the way to go. Just my opinion.

[Grizzly Adam]

Sounds like these guys are steering you right, Ray!

Don't get confused by the triple-m stuff floating around:

MMM

"MAGNUM" Muzzleloading Mythology

The idea of hunting with a blackpowder gun is not to create a lot of muzzle-blast and excess smoke and hurtful recoil. All you need to do is slip one between the ribs in the appropriate area. If your load maintains around 900-1000 ft. - lbs. energy at max range, you are good to go.

The MMM fables floating around out there are nothing but hype designed to drive the market. Nineteenth century buffalo hunters, many of whom still used muzzleloaders, would laugh long and loud to hear of the huge powder charges employed in today's short barrel rifles. Indeed, it makes me chuckle myself.

Find an accurate combo at around 90-100 grains, and shoot straight.

[Sierra]

I've enjoyed ML hunting since the early 1970s. Pennsylvania blackpowder season was challenging with the 58 cal patch & ball flintlock. My load back then was 70-75 grains of FF or FFF by volume and was adequate on PA whitetails within 100 yards.

In the 1990s shot a 50 cal T/C Black Diamond with 24" barrel with 240 and 250 grain XTPs over 90-100 grains by volume Pyrodex RS. Within the last 5 or 6 years used Triple 7 as a replacement with 90 grains by weight. The T/C was accurate out past 150 yards.

My son used the T/C last year with 90 grains T7 with 240gr XTPs and was very successful during the gun seasons. I beleive the velocity was very near 1675 fps.