52 yard shot

[sumner4991]

This a.m. a guy hunting a couple of hundred yards from me shot a seven point buck. He was using a compound bow. The arrow hit the hind quarter on a heavy angle toward his front quarter and did not exit. The buck traveled 80 yards and dropped. He said his range finder showed the buck to be 52 yards off. That's a great shot.

Anyway, the reason I brought this to the forum is to show that these compound bow hunters are making long shots. There is no way, they can claim that a crossbow has a range advantage over a compound bow.

Long shots are made by people that practice long shots and have a range finder. It was a bit breezy this morning too. As he told me when I said, "Good shot!" , he said, "More like good luck".


Here is a picture . . .nice buck, small tight rack.



It was an active morning. It has finally cooled down enough here in Ga to feel like it's "the season". I saw two deer, two coyotes, a tom turkey and several squirrels. One deer came within 15 feet of me, but, it was a fawn. It still had spots on it's little legs. The other deer snorted at me and ran off before daylight. The coyotes were nice and big . . .would have had me one, but, we are only allowed to kill deer on the public property I'm hunting(we also have to stop hunting at 10a.m. and let the joggers, walkers, horseback riders, and such use the property). One of the coyotes headed straight at me, I raised the bow at 10 yards and he froze. I was planning on shooting if he had continued toward me after I gave away my position. After about 15 seconds, he headed for the bushes. The big Tom would have been safe, he crossed behind me well after the coyotes left the scene.

The acrons were falling off the big White Oak I was resting against. I'll be back there Friday.

[mikew]

...He said his range finder showed the buck to be 52 yards off. ...It was a bit breezy this morning too. As he told me when I said, "Good shot!" , he said, "More like good luck".

IMHO, the last comment shows why the shot should not have been taken.
The flight time is TOO LONG to risk a shot like that.

Had the deer taken a step in that time, he'd have had a bad hit & "best case" a long tracking job.

"Worst case", a lost deer & in two weeks when a non-hunter discovers the carcass with an arrow in it on his/her morning jog, all hunters get a bad name.

Just my $0.02 & not trying to start a fight, just giving my opinion.

Your point about no range difference between compound & crossbow is well taken, BTW.

Have a great day & good luck Friday!
We're still a week and a half from Opening day in my part of PA....

-Mike

[Pydpiper]

Sounds like an awesome morning! Sure got me ready.. Good luck on Friday.

David

[Hi5]

I wouldn't have taken that shot even at 20 yards. It sounds like it was an intentionally taken butt shot.

To me, that's the sort of shot taken if there is a desperate need to get rid of nuisance deer. That would be the shot taken if there was more of a concern to get rid of the deer than there was that it may get wounded and be wasted.

I don't intend this as the opening salvo in an internet war. I just don't see this as sportsmanlike hunting, either with a crossbow or a compound.

[sumner4991]

Just to clarify . . .the shot entered the right hind quarter just in front of the leg as the deer was quartering away. If I have the angle correct, the broadhead ended up in the upper left front leg. When he pulled the arrow out, the broadhead remained inside the deer. It was anchored hard, probably in the upper leg bone. I wasn't there when he pulled it out. I just saw the arrow without a broadhead and the entry wound. He described the angle of the arrow which leads me to believe it's in the upper leg.

Anytime we shoot a deer with a bow, we take the chance that the deer will bolt just prior to the shot or during the flight of the arrow. I don't consider a 52 yard shot a hazard on this reason alone. I didn't check out his bow, but, this guy had all the latest equipment . . .from his clothing to his rangefinder. I'm willing to bet the bow is probably a very fast one. Anyway, the travel time for an arrow is a very short period of time, less than a second to travel 52 yards. A lot of guys will argue that a deer can leave the state in less than a second . . .well, not a deer that's standing still, looking away from you, in most cases. Is that a disclaimer or what? It's the angle of the shot and the windy conditions that might have kept me from taking the shot. Without being there and seeing the shot . . .it's hard to say. All I can say is, the shot was made and it was a good one. I don't know this guy, but, I'm a good judge of character and I'm willing to bet, he did his homework. Also, when I helped him out with the deer, he kept thanking me over and over. He didn't mention the length of the shot when we got back to the check-in station and the other guys gathered around. He wasn't bragging about the shot. Which leads me to believe he took a shot within his range and he wasn't especially impressed or surprised about his success.

Thanks for the well wishes guys. Some of the other hunters were talking about a couple of gray haired monster bucks that are roaming the area. Sure would like to see one of those guys eating some sweet acorns come Friday! Don't worry, from where I'm sitting a 30 yard shot is about the max.

[Hi5]

Good luck with your archery hunting. I'm done with mine for the season. I have a yearling cow elk, cut, wrapped, and sitting in my freezer.

Maybe in the muzzle loader season my daughter and I will go for a deer.

[sumner4991]

Hi5 . . .I envy you . . .not only on the full freezer, but, on getting your daughter out there. I have two daughters, 12 & 13, they show little interest in hunting. However, I'm going to keep trying. They do like the "nature walks", which are "scouting trips" for most of us here.

You can always do what I do to keep hunting . . .donate the animals to the needy. It keeps me hunting and feeds some needy families. I found it to be a "win, win" for everyone.

[Cossack]

I can consistanly hit a 5" target at 50 yards with my Vortex. But now way in hell am I going to hind-shoot a deer at any distance. He was indeed lucky. My nephew pulled off a simular shot last Sat. but with drastically different results: a lost deer. He saw it run by with the arrow sticking out of it's side. Lack of blood prevented his finding the animal. I'm not sure that your guy proved anything when making that shot, other than that he was lucky....great gear or not.

[groundpounder]

I'll start out by saying we all have our comfort levels with distances of shots. Weather it be with crossbow or rifle. One mans 10 yard comfort may be anothers 50 and one mans 100 yard may be anothers 500. I don't want to see the mudslinging start again so enough said on distance by me.
Just curious Sumner, where are you hunting in Ga with the time restrictions. I'm hunting Charlie Elliot WMA and they have hiking and horseback riding trails but in a designated areas. There are no time restrictions only area restrictions. I'll also be hunting South Fulton County again this year. It is the gun designated portion but the land owner limits us to archery only.

[tuskntine]

My 2 cent worth says , if you are good nuff to hit accurately at 50 yds. , why take such a low percentage shot ? Also would think that at that angle the deer would be partially gut shot . Also , HI YA fellow Ga. folks.

[sumner4991]

Hey guys . . .this is basically a judgement call. I don't know this guy personally, just met him at the hunting range after his kill. However, I asked the question about the distance and he said, "The rangefinder showed 52 yards" . . .now, he also said that he didn't think the deer was quartering that hard when he took the shot. Lots of things could have happened, there was a breeze, the deer could have taken a step, the arrow could have hit a twig, he could have pulled the shot . . .it has happened to us all. There are no guarantees at 20 yards or even 10 yards. I shot completely over a 11 point buck once from 10 yards, I still don't know what happened. I killed a doe once from 40 yards and her looking right at me . . .you never know, that's why it's archery hunting. Fortunately, for this guy, he got the deer. I really wanted to make the point about the range of a compound bow vs. a crossbow. My hats off to him for at least knowing the exact distance . . .a lot of guys just fire away and guess the distance or think they know it. That is why I think this guy did his homework. From talking with him during retrieving the deer, he seems like a very responsible individual. I'll bet he rarely misses from 50 yards at target shooting.

Groundpounder . . .I'm hunting the Cobb County Corp of Engineers property. They shut us down at 10 a.m. until November, then open us up for all day. The folks that are waiting for us to leave are very nice and ask if we had any luck as they ride their horses into the property. No anti-hunting trouble. I think they realize the deer population needs to be kept under control and we need to have as many people using the property as possible or they might start building houses on it. There's a good group of guys that hunt the property on a regular basis and they stay around until everyone checks out to see if help is needed. They also exchange stories, I never get out of there before 11 a.m. It's a lot of fun.

[VixChix]

I dug out the vert. bow and did some shooting at the range yesterday. It's been a couple of years and it took some work to get things to come together again. But after a while I could shoot 40 yds and grouped pretty well, although at that distance my sight frame was blocking the target and I had to shoot by "feel". I was amazed at how much of an angle the arrow entered the bag compared to when I shoot my xbow at the same distance. I don't think I'd ever take a shot at that distance even if I could guarantee shot placement. (Having said that, my bow is no tach driver - barely hunting legal. )

I upgraded to my xbow for hunting specifically because I wanted to eliminate as much of the potential for human-influenced factors (or errors!)as I could. I feel I owe it to the animals I hunt to make as accurate and humane a shot as possible, to that end I won't use my vert. bow again for hunting unless I was starving and xbow-less!

[sumner4991]

VixChix . . .sounds like you just explained why "Speed Sells".

I had a Bear Whitetail Hunter compound bow, heck, it's still in the attic. In the attic is where it will stay until I get up the energy to throw it in the trash. Mainly because the sights are bad, the draw is a bear(no pun), and the speed doesn't come anywhere near my Max. I have made some incredible shots with that bow and I was real good with it "back in the day". Well, except the time I missed that 11 point buck. Anyway, todays bows, both compound and crossbows are far superior to the bows we grew up with 30+ years ago. But, I've seen guys that can shoot a recurve bow better than most guys can shoot a rifle. These guys spend a lot of time shooting. The best I've seen was a guy that went quail hunting with his longbow . . .he was awesome. His best asset was knowing his distance. He had a extra sense that took care of that, yardage wasn't a problem . . .wish I had asked him his secret.

Anyway, a 40 yard shot with my Whitetail Hunter wasn't a big deal for me at the time. Estimating the yardage has always been the major deal breaker. If I estimated correctly, then I made a killing shot . . .if I was wrong, then I missed at 10 yards on a big 11 point buck. With todays rangefinders, it's much easier to pull off those longer shots. The speed of todays bows allow you to have more room for error on a shorter shot because of the flat trajectory.

I still can not tell someone I do not know that they are making an unethical shot regardless of the yardage. Use the skill you have aquired. If that means you are good at 20 yards, then stay at 20. If it means you are skilled enough for 100, then fire away. I personally am set-up and good up to 50 yards, if the shot is right. Of course, I can add "if the shot is right" on any given yardage. Shoot to your skill level and all is fine.

He that has never lost a deer throw the first stone.

[sumner4991]

Deleted, double post . . .

[VixChix]

I totally agree with you Sumner! Some people are very capable of taking longer distance shots. Whether through innate skill & talent or through many hours of practice, they have the ability to be acurate and deadly at distances most of us would refuse. Having watched a recurve shooter make 100 yd shots in preparation for competition, I have respect those who can achieve that level of confidence and accuracy.

(On the opposite end of the spectrum, I'm sure most of us have also encountered people who think that hitting the bag at 20 yds means they're ready to hunt. )

If an archer is disciplined, confident, experienced, ethical & the conditions are favourable, I don't think we could judge them for taking the long shot.