Valid concern, or not?

Pydpiper · Post by **Pydpiper** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:48 pm

I showed up at a customers home today a bit early, decided to drive through the city park to blow off some time..
As soon as I got into the park I saw a city truck marked "parks" on the side, one guy was standing 30 yards behind the truck feeding ducks from a bucket, the pond (part of a dug out creek) is 20 yards from him. He had about 100 ducks at his feet, the pond is half frozen already.. I thought that was odd.. Then I seen his partner, crawling through the snow covered grass in the middle of the city with a fishing net.. This struck me as extremely odd... I parked my animal control truck on the road and walked right between the feeder and the net guy, and spoke up..
He said they were trying to catch two swans (I could see they wanted nothing to do with these two..) to put in their cages for the winter.. I of course asked him who's authority he was acting under since what he was doing was legally defined as "hunting" and informed him that he was hunting a migratory bird.. He had absolutely no concept of what I was asking him, his buddy (the feeder) motioned him over and they left in the city truck..
These birds should have been acting on their own instincts and heading to where the sun shines, instead they sat in a half frozen pond awaiting food form the city workers?? It didn't feel right, I waved goodbye but fully intend on finding out what was happening.. Am I out of line here?

jpscribbler · Post by **jpscribbler** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:43 pm

Were they in fact city workers?
It would be good to check back and have a camera.
It's even worth a call to the parks department to ask about the truck and workers.
It appears they were poaching. That's bad. Poaching on taxpayers' time is worse.
It's a good story. I bet the Expositor would be interested.

Jp

Pydpiper · Post by **Pydpiper** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:52 pm

They were absolutely city workers, this is a small city with a big park, I know the vehicles and as someone who spends a lot of time on the road I recognized one of them from the truck on previous occasions.
It struck me as odd that they would capture (or attempt to) an animal of that magnitude to pen up for the winter, or for how long they have been doing it. When I asked "why" he said they keep them in a pen behind the city works department, in a small pond that does not freeze. The swans aside, there ducks are not being put in a very good position either, baiting the ducks to attract the swans just leaves a funny taste in my mouth.

Cossack · Post by **Cossack** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:23 pm

I'm thinkin' somone thought it would be nice to have swans there next year
(the mayor's wife?) and they realized it would be tough to get them to migrate there next year without a little help.)
BTW, were they in fact wild swan?

Pydpiper · Post by **Pydpiper** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:29 pm

I wouldn't know a wild swan from any other, they aren't tied up and normally travel the river from the park to a nearby golf course. Is it possible these birds are someones property?

fletch · Post by **fletch** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:42 pm

Hey Dave, that is what the NCC does with the swans in Ottawa. I mean they keep them over the winter and release them in the river for the summer.
"The 12 swans, descendants of a dozen birds presented to the city by the Queen in 1967, are usually released into the Rideau River from their winter quarters each spring and rounded up in the fall."

DanO · Post by **DanO** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:14 pm

They do the same thing in Elora Ontario. They overwinter the swans in a town holding cell and then release them in the spring. Legal???? I guess so??

Dan O.

mtbyak · Post by **mtbyak** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:48 pm

Woodstock & Stratford also have swans that they keep in a pen during the winter.

These swans have their wings clipped so that they cannot fly but we do get the odd one that does manage to get off the ground a few times in spring before they get them clipped

Shoot Straight
Kirk

Pydpiper · Post by **Pydpiper** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:42 am

This was in Woodstock Kirk, Southside Park.

Grizzly Adam · Post by **Grizzly Adam** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:56 am

Maybe they were just "regular joes" doing their job. I've done some ridiculous things under order of my employers before.

I don't know that their leaving means they were up to anything. Personally, if it were me doing something like that as a city employee, I'd probably just take a break until the critic left too! And maybe the city's policy for workers being taken to task by citizens is one of non-engagement ... that's not uncommon.

Anyway, ya'll do what you want to with your city swans. We'll have tens of thousands of tundra swans in our wheat fields and on our lakes in a month or so ... send those guys with the net down here!

Kenton · Post by **Kenton** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:55 am

Pydpiper, I don't think there is anything wrong with questioning what they were doing, but I doubt they were doing anything illegal. Working for the Ohio Division of Wildlife this summer we did many things that may have looked questionable. Sometimes we were even instructed to stop if people really started to take note of our action, simply to "keep the peace" so to speak. We banded all kinds of birds for reserch and even rounded up mute swans as they are an aggressive exotic species. I think you sould absolutely ask questions about what you witnessed but also realize sometimes the public isn't supposed to see the "nuts and bolts" of things like this. Just my two cents.

Shakky · Post by **Shakky** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:48 am

Pydpiper, I think you did the right thing also. With the under funding to the MNR the least we can do is ask a few question if things don't look right.

Pydpiper · Post by **Pydpiper** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:32 am

I understand these guys were only doing their job, I wasn't there to harass them, I just didn't understand how someone can hunt in the city limits, more importantly to bait them first. Their set up was one guy to feed the birds away from the water while the other lies in the bushes waiting for them to pass by then net them up.. I blew that when I walked up. They explained why they where there, and they are indeed city employees. One complained that the public has been hand feeding the birds, that is why they are having trouble getting them to their bait.
Took my kids through there this morning, the elusive swans are still there. If they do not know how to survive the winter, or have had their own abilities taken away (clipped wings) then I hope they succeed in capturing them.
I still do not understand the whole baiting and hunting thing though.. You can not hunt migratory birds around bait.
Here in Ontario our definition of hunting is very clear.
Hunting: "Includes lying in wait for, searching for, being on the trail of, pursuing, chasing or shooting at wildlife, whether or not the wildlife is killed, injured, captured or harassed. You need a hunting license to do any of these things, except where the fish and wildlife conservation act states otherwise."
Part of me is saying to mind my own business, and the other part of me is saying this is my business.

Grizzly Adam · Post by **Grizzly Adam** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:56 am

I guess perspective has something to do with the definition applied, Pydpiper. Personally, I wouldn't think of clipped-wing park-pond swans on a city-managed site as wildlife. Anything wild is not constrained; sounds to me like these swans certainly are.

In any case, why not call your conservation officer (or whatever they call them up there) and ask him about it? His answer will be the right one.

Pydpiper · Post by **Pydpiper** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:01 pm

I made a couple calls.. Our Ministry of Natural Resources will have nothing to do with waterfowl, they are managed by the Canadian Wildlife Service.
If the animal is domestic there are no permits required, and all is well. I would suspect they are domestic birds.
With the huge variances in definitions and regulations I can See why the MNR does not deal with the Canadian Wildlife Service, and vise verso.
So from what I gathered today you can bait for ducks and net them up, you just can't shoot them.