Penetration

[Northern]

I’ve watched a lot of videos, lots of wild TV (to much the wife says) and I noticed that LOTS of bow shots end with little penetration.

I just watched the new crossbow Compulsion. The exact opposite is true! It looked to me that all but Bill’s gator (fish arrow, not made for pass throughs) and Kath’s Moose (I believe she hit the off shoulder) were pass throughs!

Anyone want to put there 2 cents in on why this is? I have my theory, but I’d like to here yours.

Darin

[saxman]

I have noticed the same thing with vert bows.
Some of the shots were from low poundage bows but not all I'm sure

[Boo]

I watched the DVD and the moose was not a pass through. I saw the arrow buried up to the fletching. The gator was definitely not a pass through either.

[wabi]

I'd say the type of broadhead is a big factor. A cut on contact broadhead is going to penetrate more. Even with a bad shot (hitting heavy bone ar a poor angle) the cut on contact type head will penetrate more.
Another big factor is shot placement. I've seen some hits in videos that were very questionable (in my mind) as to placement and/or angle.
With good placement & angle (broadside through the ribs on deer is my favorite) even a fairly low poundage bow will send a good sharp cut on contact style broadhead through a deer.
Another factor I think comes into play is the race for speed that so many newcomers fall victim to. To get *** fps from your new high $$$$ bow you need to shoot an arrow similar to a soda straw in weight. Many of those light weight carbon arrows just don't have the energy a heavier (slower) arrow would have. Another thing (my opinion) is that to cut total arrow weight all too often a broadhead that is way too light is used. Often a heavier broadhead on a stiffer (heavier) shaft will be far more stable in flight and less subject to outside factors such as wind. From my trad bows a heavy full length tapered carbon shaft with a heavy (125 - 150 gr) broadhead will penetrate much better than a lighter shaft with a lighter broadhead. I may be giving up a few fps, but the remedy for that is - get closer before you shoot!
For a hunting crossbow (Vixen & up) good arrow placement with even a huge cut mechanical head and arrow weights everywhere from minimum (350 grains) to close to 500 grains has given consistant pass through performance on all the deer I've shot.

[TYE]

I don't really know the answer either. Probably bad shots, or like Wabi said, bad choice in equipment.

I myself from my vert bow, I get around 75-80 ft/lbs of KE with a 380gr arrow at around 300+ FPS... Don't think I need to worry about penetration.

I think another thing may be that on some of those shows, they take some pretty long shots sometimes.

[Northern]

I don’t have a lot of experience with crossbow kills, (1 deer) but I have taken Moose, Caribou, Black Bear, Whitetail, Mule deer, Big Horn Sheep, Cougar, Antelope, Wild Boar, and ½ doz critters in Africa with compound bow..

Here’s my take, arrow weight is not the deciding factor, you get great penetration from light weight, high speed arrows from a X-bow. I believe that arrow spine is the key. X-bow arrows are super stiff. The fly like darts. I think many people use under spined arrows and they flex on impact and you lose penetration.

I’ve always used stiff arrows. I use 371 ACC , 340 Beamans and 2315 XX78 from 60# bow. I’ve never had penetration problems!

I did some bear guiding years ago, took out a couple of Kids, they shot 40#’s with 2413 arrows cut about 25”s. (Their Dad’s bent arrows cut off ). Way over spined, they fly like Darts and both got complete pass throughs!!

When your shooting compound with release you don’t need to worry about your arrows being over spined. Stiffer is better!! Always!

The world as I see it,

Darrin

[TYE]

Northern I agree with what you said. Stiffer is always better.

You're not going to get good penetration with a shaft that flex's too much on impact.

[sumner4991]

Darrin . . .I have to agree with you. However, it has a lot to do with the size of the blade too. If you are using the 1"-1.25" cut on contact blades, then you will slide through almost anything with a crossbow. However, using a 2"-3" expandable is a different animal. The complete pass through helps in the case of blood trail, however, I've found that a large cut mechanical will drop a deer quicker than a smaller cut on contact broadhead even if there isn't a complete pass. I'd rather have a downed animal than a good blood trail. I'm sticking to the large cut mechanicals for that reason alone.

[Hi5]

I think Northern is on the money. A Xbow bolt, being considerably shorter, recovers from flexing much faster than an arrow from a long bow. Another factor, (minor perhaps), is that being shorter, there is less shaft being draged through the target. That would cause less resistance.

[Northern]

I’ve never tried a big Mechanical, but if it was going to work I’d say the x-bow is the place were it would shine!

Darrin

[brokebow]

I posted on broadheads ,and how good they are ,but it still is shot placement,I know that when you have a good heart shot the game is down.I have heard of doublelung shots that have healed on deer,I don't know if it is true or not. This came from some of the real so called Great white hunters,that have killed more deer from barstools than the woods. Jerry

[Boo]

I posted on broadheads ,and how good they are ,but it still is shot placement,I know that when you have a good heart shot the game is down.I have heard of doublelung shots that have healed on deer,I don't know if it is true or not. This came from some of the real so called Great white hunters,that have killed more deer from barstools than the woods. Jerry

I'm with you 100% on that! Wabi put down a deer last season with a mechanical that did not open by putting it through it's heart. That's good shooting = shot placement!!!! When all else fails it's shot placement that will drag your but to the podium!

[sumner4991]

Killing a deer with a heart shot is the common outcome, right? I like the uncommon . . .I dropped one with a gut shot and it travelled about 20 yards. 2" mechanical. I'll bet there's as many bad shots as good shots out there and I'm as guilty as anyone. A lot of factors against us in real life hunting situations, that's the intriging part of this sport . . beating the odds. Shot placement is very important, but, I also like to have confidence in the fact that if I don't place it perfect(like wabi), then I still bring home the meat. Kind of like a small insurance policy that I hope never to need.

On the other hand, I did fire a Wasp, cut on contact broadhead, that looked like a perfect double lung shot on a small buck(4 point). However, I got a limited blood trail for a 110 yards, a great blood trail for the next 60 yards and then lost the trail as the buck crossed an open field. Never recovered that buck. I also hit a large doe with the same results(good looking shot at close range). That's when I switched to the large cut blade. I have only shot two deer since switching, the one below and another perfect double lung that dropped a doe in her tracks. I talked to a lot of guys that use the large cut blades in their xbows and they all swear by them.

Here's the picture of the buck. . .not a pass through(however, the tip got all the way through), not in the heart, nor the lungs. . .still hit the ground(water) in a hurry. I hit more gut/liver than anything. Poor shot on a moving buck . . .lesson learned.

[Duey]

Sumner what kind of mechanicals do you shoot?

Duey

[sumner4991]

Duey . . .I took my last two deer with the Rocket Hammerheads, 3-blade, 2" cut, 100 gr. However, since I didn't get a complete pass through, I'm considering either going to the 125 gr Rocket Strictnine or add a little weight to my current set-up. The only reason I'm concerned about getting a complete pass is to save my arrow. If it doesn't pass through, then the deer usually breaks it on the way down.

I like the Hammerheads because of the results and they are relatively cheap. They fly like field-points, because they are no different. I am using two light rubberbands that come with the package. I've tested and they perform just fine. No premature openings. I also have some better rubberbands(same that my kids used on their braces) I use and it just takes one of them. When using a O-ring, I never use more than one . . .two is too many and could prevent the blades from opening as wabi experienced. Not saying that's the reason his didn't open, but, he did have two on there.

There are a lot of very good choices. If you have a high speed bow, then try the larger cut blades. Why not.