Ontario crossbow speed limit for 3D

[Stash]

I have been informed by Adam, OAA President, that the Board of Directors at their meeting today decided to raise the crossbow speed limit for 3D to 350 fps. This is effective this season, but will be up for ratification at the AGM in the fall in order to become a permanent rule change.

Thanks to everyone who offered their input on this matter. Let's see those Exomaxes and Equinoxes out there this summer!

[dick195252]

Thank You for the Info

[xbowking]

That is good news , i hope this brings out more crossbow shooters.

[curmudgeon]

Guess I'll have to get rid of my Vixen's, I can only do 305

[TYE]

Guess I'll have to get rid of my Vixen's, I can only do 305

It cracks me up when someone refers to the Excalibur Vixen as an entry level crossbow.

This is not the kind of remark any experienced longtime archer would make.

I agree! The Vixen is a great crossbow! It has just as much or more power as the average compound bow hunter gets at around 60# draw weights.

My compound has much more power than my Vixen has, but the Vixen can do the job on anything.

The way I see it is the faster crossbows just give you more range/distance to shoot, and the last time I checked the fun in bowhunting is gettin' close

[Pink Panther]

Do not knock a vixen shotting at 305 fps , the bolt will get to the target all the same .

[Pydpiper]

Faster = flatter
No matter how you decide to look at it a faster arrow is a massive advantage to an average guy, the faster the arrow the flatter it shoots, the flatter it shoots the less skill is required at judging distance/yardage. I am too young to be an "experienced archer" but rest assured, I will eventually be one, some things just can't be rushed. A new generation of old archers is coming, it is inevitable.
Compound arrows shoot flatter at a slower speed, so it only seems fair to give the crossbow a handicap of shooting it at a faster speed.
For example, a 300 FPS crossbow aimed at a 8" target at 30 yards will have one scope chevron above the target, one on the target and one below the target. A faster bow would bring the chevrons closer, resulting in all three on the target at one time, eliminating a bit of the acquired "skill" needed to place the correct chevron on the target.
My life would be so much simpler if I had any ability what-so-ever to judge distance.

[Stash]

Compound arrows shoot flatter at a slower speed, so it only seems fair to give the crossbow a handicap of shooting it at a faster speed.

Ummm, no.

Any arrow travelling at the same speed will shoot the same "flatness". (Not taking into consideration the differences in drag between different arrow fletching.)

The whole point of the rule change was to permit people owning newer, fast crossbows to participate in 3D events without having to resort to finding and assembling 600 grain arrows. Kind of hard to make an Exomax (or any of a number of other high-end bows) shoot only 300 fps...

The intent of getting the rule changed was not to allow faster bows to increase competitive advantage.

[ComfyBear]

In theory ......faster=flatter=better.

In practice ..... faster might be flatter, but NOT as accurate, just any "experienced" archer.

[Stash]

That's the age-old question for 3D shooters, isn't it?

Me, I'd rather shoot a "10" a bit left or right than a perfectly low or high "8".

But faster AND more accurate would be best, eh?

[Normous]

My 200 and 225 both shoot very fast and very accurate. My quest to have both has been rewarding in regards to hunting and shooting in general. Most importantly, in order to shoot accurately I need to do my part, a good rest combined with good trigger control skills yield tight groups at fast speeds.

[Pydpiper]

Compound arrows shoot flatter at a slower speed, so it only seems fair to give the crossbow a handicap of shooting it at a faster speed.

Ummm, no.

Any arrow travelling at the same speed will shoot the same "flatness". (Not taking into consideration the differences in drag between different arrow fletching.)

Um, yes. A short stubby crossbow arrow stays in flight for a far less amount of time than a compound arrow of equal weight. Crossbow arrows are less streamline than a compound, and as a result fall quicker to the laws of physics. Compound arrows are typically thinner (more aerodynamic) and remain in flight longer and flatter than a crossbow arrow of equal weight.
You can throw a streamline object farther that a round object of the same weight given the same outside variables. Go in the backyard and throw a football, then a basketball of the same weight and see which one goes farther.
Two arrows of the same weight with two separate diameters will have two very different ballistics. It's not theory, it's math.
Good thing you don't work in a pro shop.

[Stash]

Well, I DO work in a Pro Shop, and I DID say "Not taking into consideration the differences in drag between different arrow fletching".

Let's have both types of arrows fletched with 2" Blazers.

I was thinking of a comparison between, say, a crossbow GT LaserII weighing 370 grains out of an Exomax, getting maybe 340fps and a GT Series 22 weighing 370 grains out of a 70# PSE X-Force or some such bow, travelling 340 fps.

Compound arrow is maybe 9" longer, but the shaft material is lighter and the point is lighter, so overall, they have the same weight, same diameter, same drag from the fletching, and the same speed. Therefore they have the same flatness of trajectory. Let's not get into the practically miniscule difference in surface friction of the extra 9" of shaft.

Now, take the same 370 grain GTLII at 340fps, compared to something like a 19/64" diameter CX Maxima maybe going 320fps. Yes, the Maxima will have a bit less drag, but NOT enough to overcome the 20 fps difference on a short shot of 50 yards or less. Even downrange at 50 yards, the crossbow arrow will still be travelling faster.

I will agree that if you shoot them way up at 45 degrees, it's likely that a few hundred yards downrange, the 340 fps crossbow arrow will eventually get passed by the thinner, 320 fps compound arrow. If you compare the crossbow arrow to an even thinner X10 or some such target shaft the difference will be even greater.

But NOT at a short 3D distance of 50 yards or less.

Even taking fletching drag into consideration, at 50 yards it might be reasonable to expect a slightly slower, very thin target arrow with tiny, straight fletch to shoot flatter downrange than a faster crossbow arrow with 5" heavy helical fletch, but even that doesn't seem likely.

An analogy of footballs versus basketballs isn't fair. A better comparison would be a football thrown at a certain speed compared to another, slightly larger football thrown at a slightly higher speed.

Two arrows of the same weight with two separate diameters will have two only slightly different ballistics. It's not theory, it's math.

[Pydpiper]

I see, I guess the difference here is that do not see any difference as "slight" when it comes to ballistics. Switching from aluminum to brass was a slight difference in POI, I did that, switching from 4" vanes to 2" was slight, I did that too. Meticulously maintaining my brace height is slight, yet that is another thing I am careful with. All these "slights" is what I strive for. When they are all put together the end result is accuracy, and I refuse to see those differences as slight. To each his own.

I am well aware of where you work, I came to see you for help on picking out some arrows for my wifes recurve on her Birthday, you sent me packing, I ended up at the Bow Shop in Kitchener.

[Stash]

The point of this thread was to inform Ontario crossbows shooters about the rule change. I wasn't expecting to get into arguments and personal attacks...