OT - Mrs.John McCain

[LV2HNT]

Once again Sumner I think you are stating your opinion like it is based on fact when it is not. When I refer to an illegal war I am talking about Iraq. It has been proven that they had nothing to do with the attacks on 9/11 and they had no WMD's or ties with Alqueda. True Sadam was a bad man, but that does not make it right to over throw and kill him. Especialy when the attrocities he commited that were used to justify the war were from a long time ago. If we realy cared, we would have stepped in when he comitted them not when we realized that we needed more oil and a place for a base that could easily attack Iran. As far as I can tell, the story in Iraq was a success before the war. The trade embargos were working, not perfectly but they were working. He had no WMD's he wasn't committing genocide and he was reluctantly complying with the fair and peacefull policing that was being done.

When the attacks of 9/11 first happened, I was in a state I can't describe. I saw that most of the people around me were insanely angry that someone could do such a thing. I shared in their anger briefly but calmed myself down enough to think rationaly. I noticed on that day many parts to the story coming in didn't make sence and they have remained that way. The main thing I kept thinking though was how will this play out? There had been horrible acts of terrorism in the past where retaliation had never been carried out, atleast by means of war any way. I thought about how a peacefull society would act and how we should turn the other cheek (Take lessons from God, M.L.K., Gahndi) or retaliate in peacefull ways to gain support from the rest of the world but no matter how bad I wanted it, I feared it would not happen. I understood that the country wanted blood to be shed for our lost citizens and allthough I didn't agree I understood and did not hold it against them. I figured we would go to Afganistan and take out Osama and be done with it. I expected us to use better methods though. We have such influence in the world, so much money and fire power that I figured we would just get intel of his location and drop some bombs on him. (It is even said that there were atleast three different times that we new where he was before the war, had the bombs or missiles loaded and were told to stand down.) We didn't though, we decided to start a war instead. The war in Afganistan is justifieable but the war in Iraq is not. We entered the Iraq war illegaly, we have purposly and indescriminately killed innocent people by the hundreds of thousands, commited illegal acts of torture, and ironicaly enough, we quite possibly used illegal WMD's during the war. We have shown very little if any concern for our troops in many ways including their lack of armor and suplies, the unsanitary and disgusting facilites that they use and are hospitalized in, etc. The fact that our government chose to do these things and is quite possibly stalling the war to avoid or delay investigations into our illegal methods and to make more money disgraces me and further confirms my suspisions that they are out of control.

As far as someone burning down my house with my family inside. It is hard to say what I would do because it is not actualy happening and I am not feeling the emotions that would come with it. With that said, I think that if I caught the person getting ready to light the match I would put a bullet through him to stop it from happening. If he had just done it though, I would leave him, kock him out, or wound him and go save my family. If it had allready been done and my family was dead, I like to think that I would restrain him and let the courts deal with him which would be my ultimate goal, to make him get punished legaly. Personaly, I think a long stay in the American prison system is much better punishment than a slow or quick, painfull or painless death adminestered by myself.

This is an informative video of the legality of the Iraq war. It is worth watching. I hope you can get passed the voice and cartoons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Khut8xbXK8&feature=user

These are some vids from our own soldiers and citezens who were in Iraq.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNfgqYYQ ... re=related
Warning, not for children. Watch this and the next two parts found on the related videos section to the right of the screen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCp1gqlR5ZE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeIxHQ-lkuM
This is a very good responce from a Canadian to the video above.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYGHRGLG ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chXjCtky ... re=related

[sumner4991]

LV2HNT . . .I was talking about the "war" against Osama. Fathers, mothers, and children were killed . . .ours. There is no way to deal with the terrorists other than kill them . . .nothing else works. Just like coyotes/wolves, it's the only way to stop them.

I do believe taking out Sadam was justified and needed to be done based on the information at hand. Hind sight is 20/20 as they say. I do not believe it was a "we need oil" war. If so, it was a pretty ignorant attempt to gain control of the oil market. It should have been done years ago.

There's always a spin that can be put on every situation. Some folks profit from such spin, like Michael Moore. Too many paranoid people out there. There is also two sides to every situation, even Sadam had a good side.

You are right, I am simply stating my opinion . . .I already said, there is no factual data that we have seen. It's all been compiled by someone that can easily be discredited by someone. We each see what we want to see, believe what we want to believe. . .selective perception.

There are usually things that do not make sense in everyday events. How many times this week did you say . . .that's odd? Why/how did that happen? It would be normal to think something wasn't normal during 9/11. Because, 9/11 isn't normal. The people responsibe are not normal. Who's to know how/what they were thinking.

This is a great subject and thus has turned into a good thread. You have some very good insights. We just differ in opinion.

I do think McCain is a good man. Not the best available, but, the best man willing to accept below average pay for a crappy job where half the people will hate you for doing a job that 95% of the people do not want. The President is under too many "checks and balances" to be very effective.

[buckeye]

Terrorism is an illusion created by your government? Well I guess Mr. Clinton got the ball rolling when he had the twin towers bombed back in 92' I belive, He also had the USS Cole attacked and our US embasay bombed I guess. I don't know which movie I beleive in more, Die Hard, Bowling for Columbine, Bambi or Zeitgeist The Movie. Talk about brain washing. If you actually beleive that the US goverment would delibertly destroy the WTC than you are an IDIOT! You should worry about your goverment and all the freedoms that miss guided bunch are taking away from you everyday.

[Swish]

Up here in Canada we've got even worse choices in the coming election. Theres the schoolyard bully, spin-doctor that has squandered our national surplus and put everyone in Ontario out of work (all this with a minority government too, well done Stevo!). Then there's Dion... what can you say about that guy? if Harper is a bully, than Dion is that kid that practically gets eaten all through school, the one that even the teachers lose sympathy for. Want to watch a grown man cry? tune into CPAC.

I think its sick and twisted that McCain would use that little montage of terrorist footage before his (terrible and boring) RNC nomination speech. How dare he co opt the suffering of innocent people for political gain! that was the most tacky, lame, and twisted thing i've seen for a long time. That attack was under a republican presidency, and the 9/11 commission determined the administration knew about the potential for that attack before it happened (though i dont buy the idea that they were behind it), so what right does McCain have to campaign on the back of that horrible event?

Besides that, though, i'll leave you folks down there to sort out your country - we've already got our work cut out for us up here dealing with our own problems...

I'm all mad now... gonna go find Dion and slap him around a little.

[DrDan]

Gheesh I don't check in all day and here is a massive post on politics again! LOL Sumner told me this morning that he was done with it. LOL For god's sakes Sumner you gaonna cut your self on a broadhead loading your bow.

As for Ms. McCain I believe it is a known fact that she is addicted to opiates. She even stole some to maintain her habbit when scripts were not available. Yah boy she be a real good First Lady.

Also learned that Palin had an agent sell the jet for a $100,000 commission that the agent has not been paid for yet. Why did she have to start right out on day one lying about such a simple thing?

Just goes to prove to you that you should never shake hands with any politician. At least sanitize if you are touched by one of them.

I think our "major" problem is with the media. They elect our officials; they run our wars; they run it all and the sheep sit there and suck it all in. I agree, war is freaking war. Lock the media out and kill what needs to be killed to win. Do we give a chit if we have to take Iraq and make it a freaking colony. I certainly don't. I think we should take their damn oil and use it to pay for the war.

[flbuckmaster]

This is why I hate Politcal posts on a crossbow hunting forum. I get so tired of the negative coments that are uncalled for. Please put your political post on the right political forum.

jay

[sumner4991]

DrDan . . .better check the date first. This was in May. When you get up to date, yell at me.

Jay . . .don't click on a political post, they are disgusting.

I'm hunting. . . .sshhhhhh!

[DrDan]

I think this was a very good thread. I agree we have been silent too long and let our country go down the tubes. People need to come out and think and discuss the options to save anything we may have left.

[DrDan]

"45"
Are you sure about that? I'm certainly not.... Of course I don't really believe in fairy tales either...

[Limbs and Sticks]

Out with the Muffet's and maybe in with romper room sure is a mess.


Wes