OT McCain add look at the whole ad it is powerful.

Swish · Post by **Swish** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:08 pm

hey jh, just curious... what does this "freedom" thing that gets tossed around so much actually mean?

Iraq is an occupied country now, that aint freedom

The economy of the states is in shambles and your government is using your tax money to bail out companies instead of helping out the citizens, that aint freedom.

Attacking afghanistan wasn't a mistake, but INVADING Iraq under false pretenses (lies) was a mistake. A mistake that has, conservatively, cost the lives of at least 300,000 Iraqi civilians... and in return they're getting ...freedom?

Freedom from what? to do what? Seems to me that they have the freedom to live in fear and thats about it.

I'd love to understand what you think freedom actually means

sumner4991 · Post by **sumner4991** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:28 pm

Swish. . .freedom . . .depends on which side of the bars you were on before it got occuppied. Occuppied isn't freedom? Why not? You think Sadam was doing a better job?

False pretence? Depends on the TV channel you are watching. Again, do you like Sadam?

The economy of the US in shambles? How do you get that? What part of the economy do you think is bad exactly?

I'd love to know what you think freedom means. 300,000 dead and the rest living in fear?? Sadam killed more than that and all the rest were fearful of his men. I'd rather be occuppied.

Where do you live?

Cossack · Post by **Cossack** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:11 am

We don't need a hero. We need a clear thinker. He supported the DUBYA 99 percent of the time. Look where that has gotten us!

sumner4991 · Post by **sumner4991** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:13 am

I agree, we need a clean thinker. Do you know of one?

Obama is the biggest YES MAN. He knows how to spend money that he gets from the rich folks. That's all he has ever done. If that's what you think the nation needs, then vote Obama. That should work just fine until the rich decide to take their money and run. Why do you think all those businesses are opening in other countries? Once Obama runs out of rich people money, he will figure out that taking a small amount from a lot of middle income folks is just like taking a lot from a rich guy.

Nobody bases their vote for Obama based on Obama's resume. Nobody really likes Obama or his dreams. They just don't like Bush because he started a war and let the hurricanes knock down N.O.

Somebody tell me something good the Obama has done. Something that would make me a believer. Organizer? Tell me what streets he has cleaned up, how do they look today? He's done something, right? Does he support the NRA? There's something, right?

bmet · Post by **bmet** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:28 pm

I didn't want to get into this but I just finished reading an article on MSNBC
that was talking about the Russians and who they would rather have as our president and they think McCain is too tough and they lean toward Obama. That's one of the best reasons I can think of for voting McCain/Palin. They know Obama is soft and has no backbone. Now how many liberals did I just offend?

sumner4991 · Post by **sumner4991** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:41 pm

Offend?. . . you just paid him an compliment.

LV2HNT · Post by **LV2HNT** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:22 pm

That man is no hero. Give me a break. He is a mindless brainwashed puppet that unfortunately lost his leg to make a bunch of rich tyrants richer. At least he survived, which is better than the fate of many soldiers that have been shipped off to fight another worthless war. A true patriot would be fighting to restore our liberties here at home. A true patriot would have never given up on the idea that our country can be improved for the good of all it's citezens, not just the elite. A true patriot would scrutinize issues at home and try to fix them instead of falsly claiming superiority and trying to push his tyranical ideals on the rest of mankind.

A tyrant like you JH will say that we're the best country on the planet so the work is done. You don't care about humanity. As long as you have a house and weapons, you are content to just let your life quietly slip on by, no matter who gets stepped on, shut out, or abused. As long as it doesn't affect you, you don't care. Every generation that is yet to come greatly apreciates your inability to think rationaly.

M&M · Post by **M&M** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:08 pm

LV2HNT you said That man is no hero. Give me a break. You make me want to vomit this man is a hero he has freely by choice sacrificed for his country, he has fought for our rights and freedoms and yes your right to disagree with him I have been deployed over in the middle east five times and am currently in my 20th year of military service and it makes me sick to see you bash our wounded soldiers M&M

Swish · Post by **Swish** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:54 pm

Man, i hate to call anyone here a sucker but sheesh, fellas...

That kid in the ad is a patriot, not a hero, and no- those two words do not mean the same thing. Not every person who goes to war is a hero! I feel bad for the guy, sure, and he sure has made a sacrifice... but how is it a "sacrifice for his country"? getting your leg blown off in a country that never posed a threat to the US is not a sacrifice for your country- maybe for your army's agenda, but it certainly didnt prevent anything from happening over here.

Iraq has become an arena for angry people all over the world to go and take shots at the US military - an arena that the states CREATED by invading a sovereign country in an unfriendly part of the world. Pretty nasty thing to do to someone's country, if you ask me.

Not everyone that serves and gets injured is a hero. Thats like calling me an elite athlete cause i go to the gym.

Really my comment was on how much spin and how little actual MEANING there is behind the way you guys use the words freedom, rights, hero, liberal, traitor, terrorist, and sacrifice. I hear them all the time. Seems to me, you can blindly justify anything just by tacking one of those on.

And for the record, Saddam WAS doing a better job IF you look at it from an objective standpoint. Theres no electricity anymore, your chance of dying in the streets has shot up about 10000% ... i mean, what's good about living in Iraq these days? at least under Saddam there was some stability.

saxman · Post by **saxman** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:53 pm

I was really hoping that it wouldn't come to this on the forum.

Opinions are like assholes,Everybody has one and they all stink.

DrDan · Post by **DrDan** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:42 am

For gosh sakes JH, if you don't settle down a little yah gonna spit yah cheese curds all over the house and kick your Schlitz over. Hey have you ever heard of Fox Head 400 beer? I used to get it when I lived in WI. Kind of a bitter beer but I like that.

LV2HNT · Post by **LV2HNT** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:29 am

First off, I would like to apologize for my temper yesterday. I meant what I said, but I should have said it in a more peacefull manner. I had a bad day and I wish I had responded in a calmer and more rational way. I agree with Swish who said it much better than me. Having said that, I would like you to watch this video. These people fit my definition of heroes/patriots.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=77a_1220031522

LV2HNT · Post by **LV2HNT** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:51 am

My bad day was started when I went to work and checked my email. Someone had sent me a particularly disturbing report and everything snowballed from there. I am writing this off as Russian propaganda and will not believe it, but it pisses me off that these claims are actualy possible in this day and age. This is it:

September 16, 2008 US To Declare October 'Economic Emergency', Suspend Elections By: Sorcha Faal, and as reported to her Western Subscribers The Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation (FSB) is reporting in the Kremlin today that the Bank of England has received from the United States Federal Reserve Bank a 'notice' that President Bush is preparing to declare an 'Economic Emergency' during the week of October 5th and will further announce that the American Presidential election due to be held on November 4th will be 'indefinitely suspended'. These reports state that the Governor of the Bank of England, Mervyn King, had expressed his 'shock and outrage' to his American counterparts at the US Federal Reserve after the catastrophic collapse of one of the largest financial banks in the World, Lehman Brothers, and which caused both the Band of England and the European Central Bank to rush $42billion into the European economy yesterday to keep it from collapsing, and their own banks from running out of money, necessitating the response from the US Central Bank leader Ben S. Bernanke. As Prime Minister Putin had previously warned, and as we had reported on in our September 13th report 'Hurricane Ike To Completely Destroy UnitedStates, Says Putin', the horrific hurricane storm that has devastated the State of Texas, and where a humanitarian crisis is presently unfolding, has, indeed, proved to be the proverbial 'straw that broke the camels back' as the catastrophic damage from this storm raced beyond the Gulf of Mexico coast and ravaged the heartland of America to such an extent that the Governors of Ohio and Kentucky have declared States of Emergency as millions have been left without power. The significance of this historic storm damage to the American economy, these reports say, led to the unprecedented pressures put upon theWorld's largest insurance company American International Group (AIG) andits halt in negotiations, during a rare Sunday meeting in New York, to support the near bankrupt Lehman Brothers on Sunday, but which was then allowed to collapse and is now threatening to also destroy AIG itself. Not being explained to the American people is that AIG, the World's largest player in the $45 Trillion derivatives market, during the past two weeks had bet heavily on the World Markets against the damage from Hurricane Ike exceeding $2 billion in property damage, lost oil and gasoline production, lost wages and payments to companies forced to close, etc., it is obligated to pay, but which the actual damages are now being estimated will exceed $1 Trillion as the damages throughout the United States are finally tallied. [Note: Derivatives are financial instruments whose value changes in response to the changes in underlying variables. The main types of derivatives are futures, forwards, options, and swaps. The main use of derivatives is to reduce risk for one party.] Such a calamitous action by AIG has basically shattered the Western economic system, and as we can read as reported by The Australian Business News Service in their article titled 'Global banks brace for derivative blow-up', and which says: 'So here we are on the morning of D Day. The world's major couterparties on the $US455 trillion derivatives market go into technical default and no one is sure what is going to happen. Lehman Bros yesterday formally petitioned the State Bankruptcy Court ofthe Southern District Court of New York for Chapter 11 protection. Lehman would also have filed what are called 'first day motions',which allow the bank to pay salaries and wages, while it continues to market its non-toxic, SPAM!-dealer operations and work out what on earth to do with its highly toxic $US53 billion residential and commercial mortgage portfolio. But, as scary and Spartan as it might sound, failure is as essential to the workings of an effective marketplace as is success. Which means only that, given this shattered, battle-weary investment bank is unable to find itself a new owner or think its own way through the current calamitous circumstances, then one of the legendary brandsof Wall Street should be left to fail. In a weekend of unprecedented drama, the Fed seems to have been forced to play Solomon and choose between Merrill Lynch and Lehman. Both were facing mortal threat. But it seems only one could survive intact.' Even worse for the American people during this unprecedented crisis is that one of their top economic experts, Wilbur Ross, chairman and CEO of WL Ross & Co, is now warning that over 1,000 US banks are nearing collapse, and one of their top economists, Nouriel Roubini, of NYU's Stern School and RGE Monitor, if further warning that 'there is alreadya 'slow-motion run on retail banks' occurring nationwide.' Russian Military Analysts commenting on these reports state that though it is unlikely that the American President can suspend US elections solely on the basis of an Economic Emergency alone, it is entirely probable that he could do so should their Nation suffer another 9/11 type attack, and which they 'cryptically' observe could place as early as September 22nd as American Military Forces begin to conduct theirWorld-Wide tests of their new nuclear alert system as they conduct another test of their so-called Star Wars Missile Defense System. It should be further noted that as their once great Nation continues sliding towards the abyss of total ruin, these American people still refuse to acknowledge the substance of the many warnings being issued to them from all corners of the World as if even with eyes and ears they do not see and do not hear anything other than what they are programmed for by their masters. How sad for these people, how much sadder for the rest of us these people are now all but lost.

bow hunter · Post by **bow hunter** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:24 am

Hey guys. Have any of you ever been on the NWTF forum. They have numerous endless chains of political crap. It has gotten to the point that I don't even visit that site. I realize politics can be a very emotional subject for people and for that reason lets let these typs of discussions occur on a political forum. Lets not screw around with the friendly nature that this forum has always had. Unless the discussion surrounds the politics of wildlife conservation or the introduction of xbows as an archery weapon, lets get back to talking about hunting.

ComfyBear · Post by **ComfyBear** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:12 pm

Be he a Hero, Patriot, or just plain Naive. Does it really matter? I paraphrase, "A rose by any other name"....the result is just the same.

The bottom line is that it's folks like him that will continue to pay the price, and a heavy price it is, not the leaders who sent them there.

These leaders talk the talk, and have no worries while safe in their environs, surrounded and protected by their bodyguards. Unfortunately they never walk the walk.

I ask, when was the last time that the so called leaders of any country fought side by side with the citizens they are suppose to lead. The sad reality is that it's a case of "do as I say, not as I do". They stay at home, while "leading" our troops to their slaughter.

To me, a leader is one who leads by example , as words can be "a dime a dozen."

In today's world we do not have true leaders, but rather politician masquerading as such. Whether it will be Obama or McCain next to "lead" is irrelevant. These politicians, as those before them, are all cut from the same cloth. They all have a primary self-serving hidden agenda, i.e. the acquisition of power.

As such, they will do and say whatever it takes to acquire it. The sad reality is that power comes with a price, a price which they transfer and impose on the citizens that they control for their benefit. Whatever happened to "by the people, for the people"? It's truly sad, the state we all live in.

Yes, it's truly a sad day for not only America, but for the entire world.

I say it's time that the people took back control of their own fate; instead putting their faith in the self-serving, manipulating puppet-masters we call leaders.

Amen