G 5 Montec

[hikerman]

Not getting into what is better than outhers.

These heads are realy easy to resharpen!
I have there grades of stones.

On a wet stone in know time they are back to razor sharp.

[saxman]

I have used them to kill 4 deer this season
And they are esay to resharpen.
I am not pleased with the blood trail.

[Boo]

Paul, I agree. The shave after using a black diamond stone.

[sumner4991]

I think being sharp is a good thing. However, being razor sharp or sharp enough to cut hair or whatever isn't really necessary, is it? I want it to be sharp enough to get an arrow through my deer. A "clean" cut probably isn't as effective as a dirty cut. A clean cut can clot better and thus have less bleeding.

Also, we would probably be better off with blades that actually bend. That way, they hit a bone and curve around and keep cutting meat, which is where the blood vessels are located, not in the bone. A bending blade could also cause some odd cutting in a twisting motion . . .that would cause severe damage. A bending blade would not lose energy in the bone and prevent the arrow from a pass through.

Just thinking out loud . . .I'm bad for that.

[sumner4991]

Hunting heads can't be too sharp. A cut made by a sharp instrument takes much longer to clot than one made by a dull instrument.

Bob . . .I guess I just don't understand clotting. I would think something that is ripped apart would be harder to stop the bleeding on than something with a clean even cut . . .am I missing something?

[beretta96D]

From what I've researched, (I'm having blood trail issues as well) is that a dull blade can actually push veins and arteries aside and not cause enough hemorraging. What constitutes sharp, I don't know. I do know that I haven't found a broadhead yet new out of package that I find sharp.
Are these sharp enough, I don't know either. I always sharpen new ones on a fine stone first.

I did read a long article last night where they mention the need for cutting surface. He suggests the more blades the better, the longer blades the better as long as accuracy doesn't suffer. I believe this may be my problem. I'm using the steelforce phathead, short and narrow.

I'm looking at the NAP Razorcaps with 6" of cutting surface, along with heavier ferrules to gain more KE.

[sumner4991]

I'm with you on the cutting surface, thus the reason I'm using Stricknines. However, just because they say 2" cutting diamenter and there is three blades, doesn't mean you are getting 6" of cutting. Might want to put a ruler to it.

I guess I wasn't real clear . . .yes, I want them sharp . . .I'm just not spending a lot of time making them as sharp as humanly possible because I don't see the extra rewards for the "trouble". You hit it . . .what is "sharp enough"?

bstout is right on with the shooting from level ground. It's harder to get a blood trail. Fortunately, the last few I've shot didn't need a tracker.

[beretta96D]

who makes the stricknine? is that a mechanical or fixed?

[saxman]

Scott (sumner4991) and I have been discussing this through a series of PM lately and it did come up about my shooting from a ground blind(level shots) and also I seem to be having tunnel vision during the shot.
When I look through my scope during the heat of the moment it's like I'm watching someone else shoot.I seem to aiming behind the shoulder but center mass on the body instead of in the lower third of the chest cavity and it is taking longer for the blood to reach this point.
I need to work on this.I think maybe shooting at a Deer taget instead of dots would help.
I am in no way bashing the G5 Montec.I have killed 5 deer total with them,my first in Michigan in 2006 from a 20' high treestand at 19 yards left a trail Ray Charles could have followed and the largest 6 point from this season was from a 16' ladder stand,that deer died within sight and it was late so I recovered the arrow and tended to my chores without inspecting a trail.

I am looking for broadhead nirvana,Don't know if it is out there.
I want total confidance in the head,no worries,ever.
I have 1 Magnus 2 blade 100 grain left,I may try it as well.

[sumner4991]

Is it possible for two different heads of the same weight and cutting diameter as well as number of blades would produce differing blood trails?

Not if you put them in the exact same hole at the exact same angle.

Saxman . . .maybe you should just put dots on your deer. Seriously, there's a "spot" on the deer I always look for . . .it's right there, everytime. First thing I look for is the front leg, then I follow it up to the spot . . . OOOOppps, I lost my concentration for a minute, where was I? Oh yeah . . .the heart and lung area.

I'm a leg man, I'm a leg man!

[groundpounder]

Also, we would probably be better off with blades that actually bend. That way, they hit a bone and curve around and keep cutting meat, which is where the blood vessels are located, not in the bone. A bending blade could also cause some odd cutting in a twisting motion . . .that would cause severe damage. A bending blade would not lose energy in the bone and prevent the arrow from a pass through.

Sumner didn't your last shot with expandables break two blades off and not bend? I know I'm rehashing an older post on expandable vs fixed but I think this point should be made here. I know you stated there was still alot of damage done but what if those blades broke off on the entrance hole instead of the exit. You would not have had near the cutting surfaces on the pass through.

[DMc]

I'm a crossbow newbie so take this for what it is worth. I come from a background of traditional archery where the fixed, two-blade broadhead was king. With arrows that shot at 180 ft per second there was never a problem.

Sharpness of the broadhead I feel is critically important. A sharp cut is more difficult for the blood to coagulate in than a ragged cut. An example is nicking yourself with a razor while shaving and how difficult that is to get the bleeding to stop. Or making the same size cut by scratching yourself on a thorn...the bleeding will stop almost immediately.

I don't think razor sharp is a proper end goal. I would say scalpel sharp. The cutting edge should be eager to grab hold and slice. Razors are really not designed for that. Under a microscope they are a very smooth rounded edge, designed for cutting hair at a 90 deg angle.

Another comment has been made on mechanical vs fixed blades. I find fear of mechanicals a bit ironic in our current time. We literally rely on mechanics daily in our lives in life supporting/affecting situations. Every time you turn the key in your car you are trusting your life to a mechanical device. Our recurves are at the lower end of mechanical complexity but is much more complex than a fixed-blade broadhead. And for those of you who also shoot compounds, have you looked at your bow lately?

I'm experimenting with mechanicals with my crossbow because I am astounded with the accuracy achieveable with field points and have not been able to achieve that yet with a fixed blade. Some individual arrows, yes; but not the whole group.

Hopefully, I won't be disappointed.


Dave

[sumner4991]

Also, we would probably be better off with blades that actually bend. That way, they hit a bone and curve around and keep cutting meat, which is where the blood vessels are located, not in the bone. A bending blade could also cause some odd cutting in a twisting motion . . .that would cause severe damage. A bending blade would not lose energy in the bone and prevent the arrow from a pass through.

Sumner didn't your last shot with expandables break two blades off and not bend? I know I'm rehashing an older post on expandable vs fixed but I think this point should be made here. I know you stated there was still alot of damage done but what if those blades broke off on the entrance hole instead of the exit. You would not have had near the cutting surfaces on the pass through.

Todd . . .no problem, it's a good discussion. Those blades didn't break, well, I recovered one of them . . .it didn't break, it was bent. One broke off upon entry and one broke off during exit. I could determine that from the wounds. I wish I had taken pictures. The screws holding the blades came loose and allowed the blades to separate from the ferrule. I've discussed the issue with Trophy Ridge(and sent them some pictures) and they determined it was a durability issue with the ferrule. Ferrrule durability is a common concern for both types of heads. Anyway, they figured I had gotten some broadheads that were manufactured before Trophy Ridge bought Areohead. They sent me some new ones to try, I got them today. They look the same. I'll let you know how they perform. According to Trophy Ridge, ferrule durability was a concern when they made the purchase a year ago and they have made some adjustments.

By the way, that big buck still dropped within sight. I think I may have gotten lucky, but, it's happened to three deer. All three dropped within sight. However, for whatever the reason, the other two didn't have a pass through(I was using Hammerheads). Therefore, I didn't know if the issue was faulty ferrules or the deer falling on the broadhead. I didn't inspect the ferrule. I'm getting educated. They also thought it was an issue specifically associated to the higher speed bows, I was using my Exomax.

That's why we as hunters must present the facts to the manufacturers when we have an issue. Not only does it give us an education, but, it also allows the manufacturer to fix the problem. If we can get some soild fixes, then we are all better off. I was planning to bring this news to the forum after I got a deer with the "new" broadheads.

[bob-s]

I have to speak up and agree with DMc on the sharpness.

I use a safety razor and yes it takes a lot more time for a nick on the face to clot than a scratch from thorn or the pet cat play fighting etc.

Also favor the bigger cut idea. Hope to try the mechanical out this fall yet on a deer.

Bob.

[hikerman]

Now isn't this better than discussing politics?

I have to admit the blood trailis hard but I am also a novice.
Both deer I shot had broken ribs from the entry of the arrow.