Questions?

[Nocturnal]

Thanks for the warm welcomes guys and gals! Here's my ?'s.What are the advantages or disadvantages of the 2 inch vanes over the 5 in? Also,Why do some bolts have wraps on them?Advantage to that,or are the wraps there for weight purposes? Thanks!

[Rich]

Wraps look cool, plus the bright colors help in seeing bolt flight, impact and recovery of the bolt when it's buried in the leaves. As far as 2" vanes, they look cool also. I think they look good, always remember if you look good, you shoot good.

Rich

[Pydpiper]

The 2" vanes have slightly less drag, they lighten the arrow a tiny bit for those looking for ultimate speed.
More practically, the 2" vanes have less influence over the overall flight of the arrow, so if you have a broadhead that shoots well it will determine the flight opposed to the vanes controlling the flight with drag.
Also, when there is a substantial side wind the smaller vanes are less susceptible to the wind than the 5", for obvious reasons.
Switching from 5" to 2" vanes was the best modification I have made to my arrows for where I hunt.

[sumner4991]

The 2" vanes have slightly less drag, they lighten the arrow a tiny bit for those looking for ultimate speed.
More practically, the 2" vanes have less influence over the overall flight of the arrow, so if you have a broadhead that shoots well it will determine the flight opposed to the vanes controlling the flight with drag.
Also, when there is a substantial side wind the smaller vanes are less susceptible to the wind than the 5", for obvious reasons.
Switching from 5" to 2" vanes was the best modification I have made to my arrows for where I hunt.

Always steer from the back of the arrow.

Large vanes will steer better than small vanes especially in a high crosswind.

I doubt you could see much difference between the two vanes in your average wind in hunting conditions. The smaller vanes offer the arrow a better FOC too . . .but, again, I doubt there is much of a difference at 25 +/- yards in your average hunting conditions.

The smaller vanes will not add as much spin as the bigger vanes. So, if you like the faster spining arrow, go with the longer vanes. However, there are pros and cons to the spin too . . .for example, the spin slows the arrow down considerably at longer ranges. And the spin makes noise.

It boils down to what gives you more confidence. Or as Rich says . . .they look cool. I think the small vanes look better on the short arrows too.

I don't use wraps just because it adds weight to the wrong end of the arrow and I can usually find/see my arrow easy enough. But, they too look cool.

[sumner4991]

This depends on the physical size of your hunting head. Teeny tiny heads don't require much steering same as field points.

I agree . . .tis another reason I use mechanicals.

It would be interesting to see some testing in a wind tunnel. I'll bet the end results would be a lot like the speed differences between the two vanes. Especially at the faster speeds, these little arrows aren't airborne long. Sure, a heavy gust will blow an arrow off course . . .but, the differential between the two vanes . . .probably small.

[sumner4991]

You don't need a wind tunnel and the difference is noticeable.

How much? I've never tried it. **edited, I take that back . . .I did shoot some 4" vanes along side some 2" vanes and I didn't notice a difference . . .however, that was with Wasps Boss. They are on the small side.

Which set-ups have you tried?

[Pydpiper]

At 25 yards there is little difference in vane size versus the wind, matter of fact there is little difference using absolutely no vanes if the wind is moderate.
Last week I shaved yet another vane off an arrow, just for laughs I shot it again anyways, it had no negative effects on the arrow until I got back to 35 yards, I had imagined a wobbly arrow with no control, it was not the case. This was done with field points though.
In my home range I shoot North to south, only way I can fit in 50 yards, so when there is a strong west wind, as there often is, the larger vanes get pushed more than the smaller, with the 2" vanes the wind really has to be howling to make that arrow veer off course.
I do all my testing and practice shooting from 30 to 50 yards, gives me a better idea of whats happening. I agree that inside 20 yards very few things can make a difference. I shoot a lot, but less than 1% of that shooting is done while hunting. Out of the 3000+ times I have pulled the trigger on my bow this year one 2 of those have been in a hunting environment.
I do this because 90% of my hunting is done at the top of a cliff in swirling winds, there is no way to predict the wind direction where I am so I had to keep messing around until I found a combination that was less prone to a side wind, 2" was just the ticket.
I don't buy that you steer an arrow from the back, I think you stabilize from the back, or at least attempt to. At 20 yards you don't even need vanes to make an arrow go straight if your arrow is correct for the bow. Not to confuse that statement with me saying vanes are not needed, just an example of why I believe less drag is needed on a good arrow/bow combination.
The surface area of the vanes in flight are important to me, as mentioned it doesn't make a huge difference but I don't look for big differences anymore, I am getting down to the nitty gritty with my set up. My goal was to worry as little as possible about variables like wind and this vicious wind/snow combination we have been getting recently, sometimes I have to pause to wait for the sideways snow to slow enough to see a bag at 30 yards, it's then that a 2" vane starts to shine, with a fixed broadhead, again, field points/mechanicals matter very little.

[GaryL]

You don't need a wind tunnel and the difference is noticeable.

And I have to agree!!

I have tried them all, seen the differences in flight and POI.

I MYSELF agree the smaller vanes look COOL however COOL is not first on my list.

Now I did state I .... like 5" feathers, for me best flight and spin, and too ME look cooler

I do have and use both 2" vanes and 5" vanes depending on the weather conditions and open or tight spots, feathers more forgiving if I should touch a small twig with the feathers during the arrows flight.

However its what YOU like and if they shoot the way ya want ....

Good Hunting and playing!!

GaryL ....

[sumner4991]

I'd still like to see testing in a wind tunnel. I tend to side with David on this one. With the big broadheads at a slower speed . . .maybe a different story. I got better groups with the 2" vanes, but, ever so slightly better.

The cumulation of all the adjustments will make the big difference. However, the difference between 2" vanes and 5" vanes in your average hunting wind and at an average range isn't going to matter much.

Certainly isn't worth splitting hairs over.

Any wind that will blow my arrow off the vitals at 25 yards, isn't a wind I'm hunting in . . .

[Pydpiper]

Spinning an arrow to keep it true to it's axis is called gyroscopic inertia, and I think on a slower bow it would be more important than on these things we shoot, I think at 20 yards the arrow gets there long before the vanes, of any size can engage the wind.
Feathers would be different, but my favorite time to hunt is when everyone else is looking out the window trying to figure what else they can do with their time. I heard a while ago there was a feather that was more resistant to crappy weather, but I lost track of it somewhere. I would love to shoot feathers, I too think they look very cool!

[sumner4991]

The vane steers the arrow not only by drag (parachute affect) but also by rotating the shaft to counter any inconsistencies in concentricity (amount of helical used when installing the vane establishes this).

You are talking more about spinning the arrow here than steering it. I agree, but, you will lose downrange speed with more spin. The longer the vane, the quicker you will achieve the spin. However, it's also, the faster you will parachute the arrow thus slowing it down. There is also a noise factor that comes with spinning. A slower arrow that has noise is prone to spook the prey and the greater the risk of it jumping.

I discussed this topic at length with the tech guys at Blazer . . .they suggest the 2" vanes for the 20" arrows.

[Pydpiper]

I think the only thing that is going to be spinning around here is Nocturnal's head, he got more than he asked for.

[Nocturnal]

I think the only thing that is going to be spinning around here is Nocturnal's head, he got more than he asked for.

Like they say,If you dont know ask somebody!

[Pydpiper]

You got pretty much every answer out there.
(but mines right )

[sipsey]

Speaking of vane effects--30 or so years ago when I got my first compound--no one in my town worked on them--I actually took the string off the tear-drops at seasons end--noticed a slipping sound as i did so--next year i had to travel out of town to find a bow shop to readjust the cables and such---went and bought a good book on compound tuneing, etc.---One section dealt with "bare shaft" tuning---shooting bare shafts--then fletched shafts and adjusting till they had the same poi.--anyone ever experiment with that method?----i was amazed at how well the bare shafts actually grouped--with field points of course