The culling myth exposed

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FredBear
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The culling myth exposed

Post by FredBear »

A new article I found dismissing the cull buck theory. Which I think is a total crock to begin with!!! Maybe this will help some of the people here whom think this is a good idea.





The Culling Myth Exposed February 05, 2009
by John J. Ozoga

Conflicting penned deer research findings have fueled the age-old culling controversy. Study results on captive deer have produced recommendations ranging from removing all spike-antlered (presumably genetically inferior) yearlings, to complete protection of all yearling bucks regardless of their antler traits.

Those favoring selective removal of small-antlered young bucks claim such a practice will remove small-antlered genes from the herd and improve antler quality.

For example, recent research published by Mitchell Lockwood and his cohorts from the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, indicates selective breeding by superior-antlered yearling bucks improves subsequent yearling buck antler scores.

Lockwood and his group concluded, “Our findings clearly indicate that under constant suboptimal environmental conditions, phenotypic change in antler quality can be realized with intensive selective harvest of yearling males.”

However, Harry Jacobson argues that little or no improvement in future antler quality can be expected by culling based on yearling antler traits.

Jacobson and Texas A&M geneticist Steven Lukefahr based their conclusions on the examination of 220 yearling bucks raised at research facilities in Mississippi. They found that the doe’s nurturing ability was far more important than genetics in determining the yearling buck’s antler points, spread, weight and beam length.

Hence, Jacobson and Lukefahr concluded the following: “Our results do not support the use of yearling antler records as criteria for selective breeding management or harvest schemes to alter the genetic quality of a white-tailed deer population.”

The Latest Research

Unfortunately, until recently, the culling debate has been founded almost entirely upon studies using captive deer, held at unnaturally high densities and fed either high-quality or restricted diets.

One of the most recently published studies, concerning the question of culling effects on antler development in a wild deer population, was by Ben Koerth and James Kroll, from Stephen F. Austin State University. The objective of their study was to determine if a white-tailed buck’s first set of antlers was a good predictor of antler growth at maturity in wild populations. The study was conducted on 12 ranches, ranging from nearly 2 square miles to over 23 square miles in size, in south Texas. All but one of the ranches were fenced.

Using helicopters and net guns, Koerth and Kroll captured bucks in late January through February from 1999 to 2007. Initially, they captured as many fawns and yearlings as possible ... to serve as known-age animals. All handled animals were aged and marked for individual identification with ear tags color-coded to year of birth. In subsequent years, the researchers attempted to recapture and examine as many of the marked animals as possible. Some were also taken by hunters.

Yearling bucks were divided into two antler-point categories, those with three or fewer antler points and those with four or more antler points. Then, the researchers compared recaptured bucks in the two antler-point categories to determine differences in antler growth at 2½ years, 3½ years, 4½ years, and 5½ or more years in age. Antler measurements included number of antler points, inside spread, total beam length, total tine length, total antler circumference, and gross B&C score. (See Table 1, above).

Interesting Results

At 2½ years of age, males that started with three or less antler points remained smaller in all measured antler traits, as compared to those starting with four or more points.

Even at 3½ years of age, the small-antlered yearlings still had smaller B&C antler measurements except for circumference.

However, those starting with three or fewer antler points appeared to be accelerating antler growth at a faster rate as compared to those in the larger yearling antler group.

By 4½ years of age there were no differences in any antler measurements regardless of the yearling antler-point category.

By that age, smaller antlered yearlings had attained a mean antler size equal in width, mass, length and number of points to those starting with larger antlers at yearling age. The same was true for bucks handled when 5½ years of age or older.

Assuming a trophy buck has antlers scoring 150 points or more, the data revealed that a yearling buck with small antlers is just as likely to attain trophy status as one with larger antlers at yearling age. About 17 percent of the yearlings in the small antler category and 13 percent of the yearlings in the large antler category achieved such stature when mature.

Therefore, this research showed that a whitetail buck’s first set of antlers was a poor predictor of antler growth at maturity in a wild population. In other words, selective removal of small-antlered yearling bucks will not increase overall mature buck antler size.

Antler Growth Patterns

Although antler measurements increased for all males as they matured, small-antlered yearlings added antler mass at a faster rate in succeeding years, as compared to large-antlered yearlings. This resulted in no difference in antler size, regardless of their yearling antler size, by the time bucks grew their fourth set of antlers when 4½ years old.

Koreth and Kroll theorize there are different antler growth patterns in whitetail bucks. One pattern is a high rate of antler growth for the first few years, followed by a slower rate each year thereafter. Another pattern is steady (incremental) growth throughout the productive life of the animal. A third pattern is slow antler growth at first, followed by an increased growth rate at some point in the animal’s life.

Theoretically, all three patterns end with roughly the same antler score at maturity. If so, then number of antler points at 1½ years old might only reflect different antler growth patterns — not genetic potential for antler growth. Likewise, since yearling antlers do not serve as a reliable predictor of antler growth potential, selectively removing yearling bucks with small antlers is not likely to improve overall mature buck antler quality.
Woody Williams
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Post by Woody Williams »

Good article...

Shooting a "cull buck" is usually just an excuse for shooting an under sized buck. It is OK to shoot an under sized buck, IF that is what a person wants, but they should not try and justify it by saying it was a "cull buck".
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ecoaster
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Post by ecoaster »

Never really understood the theory. Most guys who shot "cull bucks" look down their nose at someone who shots a fork or a spike and is excited about it. Yet when they shoot one and come off like it is nothing special, it just takes away from the lure of this great pastime. Just my opinion and I'm sure some will disagree, but that's the beauty of freedom. Do what ya want and don't try to cut down others for getting their "trophies".
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Grizzly Adam
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Post by Grizzly Adam »

ecoaster wrote: Just my opinion and I'm sure some will disagree, but that's the beauty of freedom. Do what ya want and don't try to cut down others for getting their "trophies".
You've got the right attitude, Ecoaster! :D

Shoot what you like, with the weapon you like, in the way you like, and as long as it's legal, you're on the same side as I am! 8)

As for me, I just shoot a buck or a doe.

I have no use for antler snobs who disparage common hunters who take common deer. For the record, I know that many antler addicts are good guys with good attitudes. There are some on this forum. No need to name names.

Y'all know who you are! :P :wink:
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ecoaster
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Post by ecoaster »

I hear ya. I also challenge myself to find the elusive "Monster Bucks", but will put meat in my freezer first. Great to have a two tag system.
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Mike P
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Post by Mike P »

We have long believed that you can never tell what a young buck will turn out to be regarding antlers. We watch young bucks from year to year and document antler growth via pictures and sheds. We long ago concluded that you never know what you have until a buck reaches his 4th. year.

That being said, we subscribe to a different definition as it pertains to a "cull buck." We refer to a cull buck as a buck who has reached his 4th. year and has not developed a rack that measures 140 B&C points. It is our experience that these bucks will never surpass the racks they carry during this 4th. year. And the vast majority of these bucks carry eight point racks.

We have documented over the years in excess of 30 bucks who carried eight point racks as four year olds. And not one of these bucks ever improved on that eight point rack as a five year old. They are fantastic deer in every other regard. I even call them the term I have used here often, "Great Eights."

Now I would not be me if I didn't get my digs in now regarding the young bucks. After all, I am the first one at the meeting to stand up and say "I am an antler addict!" The study submitted by FredBear only reinforces my stance that you simply must let the young bucks walk if you want to see trophy deer. There is just no getting around this fact.

I also defend the right of anyone to take any deer (young buck not withstanding) by any means deemed legal by our laws. I have never, and will never, disparage a hunter for shooting a young buck to put meat in his/her freezer to feed their family. However, and here is where it gets dicey, I will never condone the shooting of a young buck for the freezer if the hunter is capable of putting a doe in the freezer instead of that immature buck.

I know my stance is not "main stream" and many here do not share my views. But if you know me from over the years here you know that I have never vacillated from this stance.

I won't say more on this issue. If I do shucks is going to take me to his woodshed. I have submitted an article for the HBM spring issue regarding this subject and to say anymore here will potentially steal some thunder from the piece. And if Dan runs the piece in HBM believe me I expect there will not only be thunder but more then a few lightning bolts as well in the following issues "Letter to the Editor" area.

And shucks, I didn't spoil your read when your spring issue arrives sans cover.

But you have to admit, I am nothing if not a tease. :lol:
Grizzly Adam
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Post by Grizzly Adam »

Mike P wrote: I also defend the right of anyone to take any deer (young buck not withstanding) by any means deemed legal by our laws. I have never, and will never, disparage a hunter for shooting a young buck to put meat in his/her freezer to feed their family.
Yes, Mike, this we know. I think your attitude toward others with differing views is about as charitable as an antler addict's attitude gets! 8)

And those of us who aren't so concerned about antlers appreciate that grace. :D

One thing I like about your attitude is that I don't believe you'd deny that your feelings about others killing young bucks stem from your desire to kill big bucks.

You're big enough to admit that it's a personal interest, and while you take a strong stand in defense of that interest, you do not descend to the depths of badmouthing those who don't agree. That's a wonderful example, and other antler addicts should take note.

There's nothing wrong with pronouncing, promoting and defending a personal interest ... but it should always be done with civility.

I'm glad that you're such a gentleman about it, Mike! :D
Grizz
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Post by crazyfarmer »

shooting small bucks is the choice of the hunter or clubs. Those that want bigger bucks, pass the smaller ones but thats just because they want 150inch deer later on. Like Mike said, if someone thinks a spike is a trophy, then by all means it is to them. The only hunter that erks me is one that shoots small buck after small buck, but then complains because he cant find any big bucks. Pot calling Kettle phrase there :P

as everyone said, you just dont know what a 1 year old spike could grow into by 4 years of age. As Mike said, by his 4th year if he hasnt shown good signs of growth, I doubt he will. We have a issue with 4-6 year old 6pts here. For some reason thats all they because. They never grow 8 or 10pts. Those are cull bucks to me. But its something about a huge 20inch 6pt that I like though so I dont complain. A trophy is in the eye of the beholder :D

as said, those that claim they are shooting spikes because they are culling the herd is just an excuse to others. The honest and true hunters admitt they just want meat to eat;)
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Post by saxman »

I would shoot bigger bucks if I could find them. :D
They are all trophies to me.
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VixChix
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Post by VixChix »

Although I'm currently of the "if it's brown it's down" persuasion (determined largely by circumstances :roll: ), I appreciate and greatly enjoy reading of our members' pursuits of trophy-antlered bucks.

It speaks volumes about this forum that so many diverse hunters can cheer each others' successes in spite of their own personal hunting philosophies.
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Woody Williams
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Post by Woody Williams »

Pardon the long post…

There is nothing wrong with 6 pointers... ;)

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As most of you know there is no one that appreciates or loves to hunt big bucks more than I do. It has been way over 20 years since I killed my last 1 1/2 year old buck.

With that said, I do not care a whit what someone else shoots. They can fill their deer tag every year with a spike if that is their desire. It is, after all, their deer tag. It is not a big buck tag, but a deer tag.

The folks that own the deer hunting ground next to me filled all their tags on the gun opener and it was usually smaller bucks. After a few years of doing this they asked me how come I always killed bigger bucks than they do. I told them that I waited until the buck I wanted came by. I passed the very same bucks that they were shooting. IOW – They would never (or very seldom) kill a big buck if they kept shooting the smaller bucks. That caught on and now they are waiting and killing bigger bucks too.

I NEVER told them that they shouldn’t kill, and I most certainly did not chastise them for killing smaller bucks.

What gets me all up in arms is the campaigning by groups to get the Fish and Game people to change regulation to “grow trophies”. Be that antler restrictions or further limiting the number of bucks one can take. Their desire for bigger bucks should not outweigh the desire of old Joe Deer hunter to take the buck/deer of his/her choice.

Now some will say that “culling” the lesser antlered mature deer is good for the herd, but that is hogwash. Who are we top determine that a big racks is genetically superior for the deer herd? The does are the ones that decide that. IOW- That huge racked buck might be the dork of the herd.

The “world record” buck that Rompola supposedly killed (subject for another thread ;) ) was being bullied by a much smaller ten pointer. It is not the buck in the fight, but the fight in the buck that determine breeding and passing on the genes.

Saying that big antlered deer are genetically superior is trying to establish man made standards on the deer. One that benefits us, (if that is what we are after) and does little for the herd.
Woody Williams

We have met the enemy and he is us - Pogo Possum

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Post by cabinfever »

I hunt for meat first, I have three kids that love deer meat. The two younger ones love to hunt also (10 year old girl & 15 year old boy).
On my inlaws property I will only shoot a doe during bow season they taste better than horn soup just my opinion, I let my brother hunt the big boys. I let the kids shoot the animal of their desire. The farm that I hunt has the same stance as VixChix if it's brown please put it down. When I hunt the farm I do as they wish if a buck comes in alone I will put him down I save the antler for projects but I don't have any of them mounted. If a doe and buck come in together I will take the doe. I have had some people say that a meat hunter is an excuse for a bad hunter. I don't argue with them, But when the season is over and their freezer is empty I don't offer my doe meat to them. I try to get extra meat every year so I can offer it to people who like it but cann't hunt.
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Post by wildwindom »

Lots of good reading in these posts here I LOVE IT!!!
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ecoaster
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Post by ecoaster »

I agree. Lots of good insight. Everyone passes a deer for their own reasons. Personally, I pass on does with fawns early on in the season. If a lone doe or a small buck comes through and the freezer is empty it goes down. I will take a doe in the late season, with a fawn, if the freezer is still empty. I prefer to pass on them earlier in the season to give the young one more of a chance for survival. I have passed up a number of small bucks also, looking for something bigger. This is a luxary for those who hunt areas where the deer population is large.

Where I used to hunt in N.S., the first leagal deer that came by went down. Of the 5 years I deer hunted there, I only squeezed the trigger twice. The numbers just were not there. That is why there has been a very limited doe draw for the last 15 years. Most years my family brings home NIL from the deer woods. It is still a very special time of year they would not trade for anything.
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Post by Kenton »

Another thing that some people fail to realize is that half (and some studies suggest more) of a bucks antler genes come from its mother. Unless you know exactly which bucks breed which does, human induced genetic selection simply doesn't work.
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