Tracking

[evaughan]

While I know many who feel comfortable shooting at 50 yds, I seriously question the decision to use mechanical broadheads at that range. Kinetic energy has dropped substatially by then and well into the range where a mechanical could be expected to perform poorly or fail. I am guessing this is what happened and is potentially why it pulled tissue out with it. A mechanical broadhead is flat out the wrong equipment for that length of shot especially on a carbon arrow. Kinetic energy in the 40-50 lb range is simply not enough to count on mechanical broadhead performance.

[Boo]

Here's what I was talking about when referencing the "No Kill Zone".

From this website:

http://trailcameras.net/hunting-blog/bo ... cement.php

It shows pictures of deer on trail cameras walking around with an arrow sticking out of it's side.





Along with some skeletal examples as well.



Mike

Geeze I hate seeing that(not talking about you posting the picture). Talk about fuel for the antis!

[sumner4991]

While I know many who feel comfortable shooting at 50 yds, I seriously question the decision to use mechanical broadheads at that range. Kinetic energy has dropped substatially by then and well into the range where a mechanical could be expected to perform poorly or fail. I am guessing this is what happened and is potentially why it pulled tissue out with it. A mechanical broadhead is flat out the wrong equipment for that length of shot especially on a carbon arrow. Kinetic energy in the 40-50 lb range is simply not enough to count on mechanical broadhead performance.

I simply disagree . . .just in the fact that it doesn't matter what broadhead you are using. In fact, a mechanical is much more likely to accurately reach your intended POI. The amount of extra KE needed to complete the pass through isn't just a type of broadhead issue. Weight, number of blades, width of blades, type of mechanical release . . .a lot more factors. That's a different discussion altogether.

Deputy . . .we are trying to help you harvest more deer. That's all.

Read this article . . .

http://www.americanhunter.org/ArticlePa ... 845&cid=47

[wheelie]

30 yards max for me hunting. Try to place myself to keep them under 20 yards. For field shooting my bow is lined up for 100 yards. And I practise 100 yards. When shooting target, just look at pulling arrows out, the difference between even 20 and 30 yards. Thats how much energy is lost just betwwen 20 and 30.

[DirtyGun]

Yes I am confident out to 60 yards, and would not hesitate on taking another shot at 50. Variables do come into play and I am a very competent hunter. I don't expect sympathy, but will not tolerate someone telling me to quit bowhunting!

I never said 'quit bowhunting'.

In 2001, I lost a deer in the rain. That was the last time I hunted in the rain, because I learned very quickly how fast a blood trail can wash away. For my own personal ethics, I choose to not hunt deer in the rain, considering that variable bit me in the ass in the past. I don't need to shoot a deer that badly that I need to get out there every free moment I have, since my family doesn't depend on it. So, I either stay in, or, as I said...I go duck hunting.

I read at least 15-20 stories between the five to six forums I frequent every year about guys losing deer in the rain. It's obviously a variable that some people have not considered and are fine with the negative outcome it can produce.

[PA_DeerHunter]

I recently viewed a video where a deer ducks an arrow shot from a distance of only 20 yards away. Had the bow speed been a fraction faster the deer would have received a nasty gaping wound across the back. Should the hunter's lesson learned, and new rule for hunting be:

1. Only shoot at deer 15 yards away or less?
2. Buy a faster bow?
3. Don't try to ascribe some moral dilemma to it and keep trying?

One of the things I can't stand about the compound crowd who look with contempt upon me, a crossbow user, is their holier than thou self righteousness. I guess Pharisees are alive and well in the crossbow circles too! Alas!

[DirtyGun]

Double post.

[evaughan]

I simply disagree . . .just in the fact that it doesn't matter what broadhead you are using. In fact, a mechanical is much more likely to accurately reach your intended POI. The amount of extra KE needed to complete the pass through isn't just a type of broadhead issue. Weight, number of blades, width of blades, type of mechanical release . . .a lot more factors. That's a different discussion altogether.

Deputy . . .we are trying to help you harvest more deer. That's all.

Read this article . . .

http://www.americanhunter.org/ArticlePa ... 845&cid=47[/quote]


I do agree with you but the flip side is, it is certainly possible that his broadhead failed. All types can fail, but the average minimum KE reccomended by MANUFACTURERS is 55lb. The OP has not indicated his bow model or arrow but at 50 yrds he is likely into this range and thus can expect mechanical broadhead failure from time to time on shots of that length.

When you shoot a deer with an excal, track it over 400 yrds. and don't hang it on the pole there are really only 2 things that could have gone wrong, hit location or broadhead failure. the latter is most certainly a possiblity worth considering in this instance.

[sumner4991]

I recently viewed a video where a deer ducks an arrow shot from a distance of only 20 yards away. Had the bow speed been a fraction faster the deer would have received a nasty gaping wound across the back. Should the hunter's lesson learned, and new rule for hunting be:

1. Only shoot at deer 15 yards away or less?
2. Buy a faster bow?
3. Don't try to ascribe some moral dilemma to it and keep trying?

One of the things I can't stand about the compound crowd who look with contempt upon me, a crossbow user, is their holier than thou self righteousness. I guess Pharisees are alive and well in the crossbow circles too! Alas!

I don't see that at all.

I see a collection of knowledge here on the forum that is openly shared. I have learned a lot over the years from the guys/gals here. We have NOT always agreed. If we did, then not much would be learned.

What I am suggesting is to know your set-up and your prey. Hunt within the paramenters in a manner to achieve a successful hunt.

If your set-up can consistantly harvest deer out to 100 yards, then have at it. If your set-up can only successfully harvest deer out to 20 yards, then don't be shooting 30 yards.

Take into account all the variables and set up your stand accordingly. Stick to the rules you set for yourself.

evaughn . . .there a lot of variables to consider in this case, too many in fact. I feel like the other variables are more likely to keep the 50 yard shot from being successful than the broadhead itself. Thus why a 50 yard shot is ill-advised. He is shooting a Barnett Quad 400 and with the 125 gr set up, I doubt its shooting much over 310FPS. Too slow for a 50 yard shot in the rain and the evidence is staring at us. Could he go out and make that shot this evening . . .sure he can . . .I'm saying, the odds are against him.

[Crispy]

Deputy, I feel for you. I thought I lost a deer one year with a compound and felt terrible, luckily a friend shot it that evening. Since then Ive limited my shots to 30 yards. Its more challenging for me to get closer. Now I shoot a Vortex and still havent used my bottom 2 chevrons, but the 20 and 30 will drive tacks! Sorry to hear your misfortune and wish you luck in the future.

[wabi]

Sorry to hear you were unable to recover the deer, but it happens that way sometimes.
I've lost a few over the years, and the only way to get past it is just to get back out there and try again.

As for ethical yardage, I say that's YOUR decision. For me it's 30 yards, but that's just my personal choice. It's more about getting close than my shooting ability, I just love the feeling of getting that close to a deer undetected.

I have done some testing in past years to study the deer's reaction to the sound of the crossbow. I've shot arrows into the ground while deer were in the food plot just to see the reaction.
In my opinion out to about 50-60 yards the deer are usually going to react to the sound by "jumping the string". Beyond 50-60 yards sometimes they react by "jumping the string", sometimes they just look in the direction the sound came from, sometimes they show no physical reaction.
There is no such thing (or at least it's very rare) as a totally relaxed deer.
They survive by reacting instantly (going into escape mode) to any sight, sound, or smell that is out of the ordinary in their area. That area can vary greatly in size, and some deer tolerate more disturbance than others. There's no way to accurately predict the reaction that I can figure out.
I will go as far to say that the odds of making a good shot are probably better at 60 yards than 40 yards. In my observations more deer are going to "jump the string" at 40 yards than at 60. I'm not advocating long distance sniping of deer with a crossbow, I wouldn't try it, but it's certainly not impossible.

I've had a deer at 12 yards decide to take a step just as the arrow released and I had a long, hard tracking job to find a bloated, spoiled deer late the next day. It's never a 100% sure thing, but the closer you get the better the odds.
I'm getting older, and I like short blood trails and quick recovery of my deer.

I've shot a good many deer with my crossbow(s), and I can't remember a successful shot much beyond 20 yards. I've tried a few past that and something has always gone wrong.
I can think of three I tried beyond 30. Two of those were clean misses, and one was a hit high in the back (probably non-fatal) but that one was because of a scope failure not "jumping the string".

[retrieverman]

I wish I were near you and could bring Annie over to run the trail. Her nose hasn't failed me on deer or hogs.

[ger34]

Everyone has their own personal comfort zone for shooting deer.... I know a guy who has taken 2 or 3 deer at 80yds with his Exomax.... thats double the distance I feel comfortable with ...but then again...I am "comfortable" at 40yds

3 yrs ago i shot an 8pt at 30 yds with a 12g using Remington Copper solids in 3"...he ran 150 yds and crossed a creek... I found a 3" piece of lung where he was first shot... but i tracked him for 3 1/2 hrs on my hands and knees finding pin drops of blood in the leaves before he ran through the willows beside the creek and left huge smears of blood on the branches.... that same year I bought this

[url]http://www.bluestar-hunting.com[url]

and I don't leave home without it

your call

P.S any admin want to fix that url to make it a direct link...feel free...I can't figure it out... lol

[secret]

Dont sweat it.....The coyotes will get it!
R Real
A archers
G giant
E Egos

[bob1961]

ok guys pete (DEPUTY) is a good guy i've known for many years....he is torn up bout losing this deer, as i have been with the four deer i have lost since 1982 plus two large bear also....it happens and to all of us reguardless of the yardage....it has been raining for a few days when he shot this deer yes, but at the time it wasn't raining when he shot and when i got back there with him after an hour and a half the blood was still the way i want to track blood when it is wet out....we followed a good blood trail at a fairly fast pace then it just stopped to where we couldn't pick it back up 50 yds from the last small 1/4" round drop in a grid search....i just wasn't there when he shot this deer so i don't know the alertness of said deer....i know the first deer i took with my xbow was at 50 yds, but i knew what my xbow could put an arrow at that yardage too....plus the deer i took was totaly in the dark that i was there also as it never flinched at the trigger pull TWANG or the THWACK as it hit home....the deer just walked away feeding as it was for 20 feet till it fell over all in bout 20 seconds....i try not to critisize anyones shot without me being there....my second deer was shot at 20 yds and ran 500 yds till it dropped dead and both deer were shot with just bout the same arrow path through them both, one from the right and the other from the left side....two deer shot with the same arrow path through them and two entirely different outcomes on how far each went after the shot....these whitetail deer are very tough animals compaired to what they look like just walking around....pete i feel you did what you were suposed to have done within your comfort zone as anyone else on this or any other forum .........bob

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