What's The Adavantge.100gr. 125gr. 150gr. and even heavier

[FredBear]

In the hunting world today speed is "sexy" its what everyone useing to advertise to new, or uneducated hunters. All modern equipment has more than enough speed. So if you give up a few feet per second to have a heavier arrow its is totally worth it. IMO. Think of it this way. Would you rather be hit by 100 mph thrown baseball or a 90 mph bowling ball?

[georgiaboy]

The NAP broadhead you read about is the spitfire f.o.c ...weighs in at 170gr with a 3in. cut!!!!
I've also noticed the drift towards the heavier broadheads!
I had a thread on this new spitfire last week...I see no problem with it on thin skinned game...but I don't see the lower poundage bows blowin 3in holes through critters! Maybe at closer ranges using heavier arrows...but where is the point of diminishing return?
There's just so much speed I'm willing to give up!!!
The higher poundage bows can afford to loose a little more...I'll stick to my 100gr maybe 125 but that would be my max!!!
I'm sure this thread will stir the pot!!! Lol

[Michael Stogre]

My last two deer were taken with the 150 grain boltcutters. I was using a phoenix shooting XX78 aluminum
arrows with a speed of 250 ft per second. I switched after reading all the arrow lethality studies and updates by Dr. Ed. Ashby. Recently he has focussed on the advantages of high to extreme FOC. For the many people shooting slick tricks there is now a 175 grain slick trick for crossbows! The message must be getting out, and hitting home.

MJS,

[cevans]

If your into speed you go lite, if your into kinetic energy, or foot pounds of force. check your arrow speeds vs. foot pounds of energy on excalibur's arrow stats, and you will get more knock down power from a heavier arrow with a heavier broadhead even at lower speeds. For hunting, I think that most of us are looking for as flat of a shot we can get at the max yardage we strive to shoot at vs. the knockdown power to shoot thru the animal to create a more perfect quick kill senario. One other thing to think about. The lighter "screaming speed" means your on the verge of dry firing your weapon, be it bow or CB, and the less life expentacy you will have with your equipment. Sooner or later, shooting "smoke" or all out speed, something is going to eventually give. As Excalibur creates heavier poundage bows, you can afford to give up speed for kinetic energy, and basically lose nothing. There are so many varations of set-ups for each individual, its a matter of what floats your boat.

[gerald strine]

Energy is only one part of the Equation here the advantage to the heavy heads is a high F.O.C. or front of center balance a high F.O.C bolt is more accurate and forgiving than a low F.O.C bolt.
The shorter the bolt the heaver the weight needs to be to get the forward balance.

[sumner4991]

Energy is only one part of the Equation here the advantage to the heavy heads is a high F.O.C. or front of center balance a high F.O.C bolt is more accurate and forgiving than a low F.O.C bolt.
The shorter the bolt the heaver the weight needs to be to get the forward balance.

I fail to see the advantage of high FOC unless you are shooting fixed blades. It's as simple for me to hit a 2" bullseye at 50 yards with a 350 grain arrow as it is to hit the same bullseye with a 450 grain arrow . . .with a field tip. Same goes for my mechanicals.

I talked to the guys at NAP when they introduced the 170 Spitfire Magnum and they were looking for a smoother launch from the heavier arrow to prevent premature openings from the spring loaded blades. At the time it was their only crossbow specific broadhead.

I like the looks of NAPs new broadheads, the "F.O.C." is one mean looking broadhead. I would perfer it in a 3 blade model. That would give me some reason to add some weight, to push those big blades through a whitetail. The other new NAP broadhead I like the looks of is the Spitfire Edge . . .of course, it may not be legal in all areas because of the serrated edges. Sure looks mean.

I like the most cutting surface possible and still penetrate all the way through my prey.

[M&M]

the spitfire magnum is a 3 blade 170gr broadhead but it doesn't have the 3inch cut it's a 1 1/4 in cut which is fine with me

[sumner4991]

I just wanted to add, for me weight is just a thing I need to get my broadhead through a deer. When I switched to a 3 blade, 2" cut broadhead, I was not getting a complete pass through with that set-up. So, I kept adding weight until I got a complete pass and the arrow typically stops within 20 yards of the POI. For me that's important because I hunt from the ground and do not want to spend all day hunting my arrow after the pass through.

I also found that the more cutting surface, the quicker the kill. Again, important to me because I hunt from the ground. Typically, a shot from the ground has less of a blood trail because of the position of the exit wound. There is less need to track with the bigger cut blades because the deer usually fall within sight. Looking at the broadhead data for the 2" cut, 3 bladed broadheads . . .there have been 13 reported kills with the longest recovery being 60 yards. The average recovery is 17.58 yards.

The crossbows we are shooting have plenty of power for penetration. I want to take advantage of the power in the trajectory. Therefore, I want just enough weight to get the arrow through the animal I'm hunting. Since, the biggest animal I hunt is a 200+/- pound whitetail, it just doesn't take a lot of weight. My arrow weighs 408 grains, total. When I was shooting the 1 1/4" blades it only took a 380 grain arrow to achieve the same goal. This is using the Exomax.

I wish there was a chart for this . . .blade size vs animal size vs weight vs speed(bow) . . .there probably is one on the internet, somewhere . . .

Go stick a pig John!

[vixenmaster]

Hello hello echo echo, Lets pick apart mech. BH's & their weight. We already knowed the heavier the better the FOC. Weight diff between 100 & 125 is fer that reason as the cutting dia. is the same on the spitfire & many others. COC BH's diff in weight is sometimes length & or dia. blade thickness on some models. Most alum. arrows lack FOC so the BH weight helps in that area. Carbon with alum. front insert is in the alum. thing of light weight & no FOC hence the heavier BH's. Another thing i like is a BH with a min. of .030 blade thickness prefer .035 or more. I hope i have stirred the pot more. FPS is good up to a pt. that pt maybe why the BH's are getting smaller & very streamlined because of air turbulance at the speeds some of the fast Bows have reached ! You should base yer needs with the type of fauna & or woods/timber thickets n such you hunt in. It does no good to spend $1500 on a Bow that has 450 fps if yer only getting clear shots on game at 25/30 yds!

[Dash]

There's a lot of different opinions getting thrown in here. All good though.
I think as long as your getting pass throughs on the animal you hunt, your in good shape. If your normal arrow weight is getting pass throughs with accuracy, why bump the weight up to much ? If you're not , yeah its worth playing with until you have consistancy.
A lot depends on the poundage of your bow of course. 150gr broadhead for an equinox doesn't seem heavy, but for a lighter bow it is. Its natural there will be a good variation between us on arrow weights and FOC weight.
I like sumners point about not wanting to go to far looking for the arrow.

[sumner4991]

Hello hello echo echo, Lets pick apart mech. BH's & their weight. We already knowed the heavier the better the FOC. Weight diff between 100 & 125 is fer that reason as the cutting dia. is the same on the spitfire & many others. COC BH's diff in weight is sometimes length & or dia. blade thickness on some models. Most alum. arrows lack FOC so the BH weight helps in that area. Carbon with alum. front insert is in the alum. thing of light weight & no FOC hence the heavier BH's. Another thing i like is a BH with a min. of .030 blade thickness prefer .035 or more. I hope i have stirred the pot more. FPS is good up to a pt. that pt maybe why the BH's are getting smaller & very streamlined because of air turbulance at the speeds some of the fast Bows have reached ! You should base yer needs with the type of fauna & or woods/timber thickets n such you hunt in. It does no good to spend $1500 on a Bow that has 450 fps if yer only getting clear shots on game at 25/30 yds!

OK, I think I see the pot you are stirring.

Here you go . . .speed is actually more beneficial than FOC . . .give me a crossbow with a 500 FPS spec and I'll show you some dead deer with a lite arrow. I'll give you an arrow with a 1 pound weight on the end of it and we'll see what you can get close enough to hit with it.

Just kidding.

There are trade-offs in every aspect of archery. Sure, the faster the bow, the more streamline the projectile needs to be.

There is very little difference in a 100 grain broadhead vs a 125 grain broadhead. There is actually very little difference in a lot of the things we tinker with on our bows. I know my Exomax is just as accurate with the lite arrow as it is with a heavy arrow . . .I've shot a lot of both.

Initally, I liked the thicker blades too. They last longer and I'm all for saving money. But, then I got educated on the purpose of the thinner blades(to bend around the bone and keep cutting). A broadhead does little good sitting in the shoulder bone(not that I have ever hit a shoulder, but, I might). So, I perfer to swap out the blades . . .until I get enough speed to cut through the dense bone . . . which is apparently just around the corner.

I just have a hard time believing that if you are inconsistant with a 100 grain broadhead, then you can simply add a brass insert of some other form of weight and start hitting the center every time. In my experience, the 100 grain broadhead puts enough weight on a 20 inch arrow for sufficient FOC. If you are having trouble with your accuracy with that set-up, then adding weight to the arrow isn't my first suggestion.

[Horizontal Hunter]

Energy is only one part of the Equation here the advantage to the heavy heads is a high F.O.C. or front of center balance a high F.O.C bolt is more accurate and forgiving than a low F.O.C bolt.
The shorter the bolt the heaver the weight needs to be to get the forward balance.

I has been my experience that a high FOC arrow is more stable than a one with a lower FOC and is therefore more accurate. I agree with Sumner that it will show up when shooting fixed broadheads but it is not as much of an issue when you are are shooting a mechanical. IMO that doesn't mean that the arrow is more stable. It just means that there is nothing on the front of the arrow trying to steer it.

I believe in high FOC and there are two ways to get the weight on the front of your arrow. You can use a "crossbow" broadhead in the 170g range and a standard aluminum insert or you can use a standard weight broadhead (100g, 125g) and a brass insert. Using the standard weight broadhead and brass insert combination gives you a wide variety of broadheads to choose from. Using a heavy "crossbow" broadhead greatly limits your choices to just a few.

Just like anything else there are trade offs in arrow trajectory and kinetic energy to consider. I am shooting the GT Laser II arrows fletched with 2" Bhoning Blazers, with a brass insert and 125g broadhead. I have been very happy with this combination and I have been shooting it for several years. When my broadhead supply runs down I am going to make the switch to a 100g broadhead to give me a better selection of broadheads an to take advantage of the free broadhead give aways the come up from time to time. The give aways always seem to be in a 100g version and I end up giving them to my friends. I am one of those people that believe that just about any broadhead will do the job if it is put in the right place.

Bob

[bob1961]

I like the looks of NAPs new broadheads, the "F.O.C." is one mean looking broadhead. I would perfer it in a 3 blade model. That would give me some reason to add some weight, to push those big blades through a whitetail. The other new NAP broadhead I like the looks of is the Spitfire Edge . . .of course, it may not be legal in all areas because of the serrated edges. Sure looks mean.

serrated edges do nothing on raw flesh that a broadhead needs to do....how many of you have tried cutting a raw piece of meat with a steak knife compaired to a non-serrated knife....pretty darn obvious huh ....come on people, why would anybody stick a steak knife type bladed broadhead on there arrow is way beyond me and has no respect for the animals they hunt, IMHO....i'm shooting 125 gr slick trick mags out to 50 as my field points with some homework on how to get them there........bob

....

[sumner4991]

serrated edges do nothing on raw flesh that a broadhead needs to do

....

Bob . . .here is the web address for NAP's "The Edge" . . .

http://www.newarchery.com/publish/posts ... roids.html

According to the site . . .

"The dual action serrated blades – slices clean through hide and flesh and saws through bone".

My bread knife with the serrated edges slices through raw chicken like it'd nothing because I use a back and forth motion. If this broadhead has some back and forth movement in it's "dual action", then I suppose it's possible that it saws. However, it's the "saws through bone" part that I'm leary about. Pretty bold claim, IMO.

Just to be clear, I'm not endorcing any broadhead. I just like the looks of the thing. I always like to see the new products and their claims. Makes the off season more interesting.

If I were to try a new NAP product, then it would probably be the F.O.C. Here is it's website . . .

http://www.newarchery.com/products/1-57 ... s/foc.html

Of course, I would use it in "hyper-cut mode". It's even got the thick blades for those folks that perfer thick. I just like the wing spand.

[Big D]

I hunt with a equinox x-bow, traditional recurves bows and love to shoot airguns. I shoot over 530 grains from both my x-bow and recurve. After lots of research and practice I believe they all shoot better with heavier arrows/pellets. I would like to list 3 reasons why.

1.better flight/accuracy
2. better penetration/ momentum
3. more quiet

The further you surpass 300 ft/sec the more errors are magnified. if i can keep my bow under 300 fps i believe it performs better. Just the same for my airguns if i can shoot a heavy pellet and keep it under a 1000 fps the accuracy improves. Most of my 47 x-bow kills have been within 20 yds in my opinion the trajectory is not affected a that distance I see no negatives only positives if shots are 30 yards and under.

GOD bless Big D