Is Speed Important and how does it affect Performance

[ComfyBear]

Is speed important, or more to the point is it the "Holy Grail"?

We all heard the hype about the speed of the current crossbows. However is it that important. In my opinion, even though speed might sell crossbows, it does not mean faster is better. When all is said and done it's the accuracy and consistency of Excalibur crossbows that makes them a superior product.

At one time or other, I've had the pleasure and honour of owning most of Excaliburs models. Through my many years of ownership, I've come to realize one important fact about Excaliburs, to maximize their potential they have to be matched with the proper weighted arrow. In other words, when it comes to choosing the best arrow, each model is different, and one size doesn't fit all. I've found that there's an optimal speed at which an Excalibur will perform. If that speed is exceeded, then the performance will suffer. For example, when the Exomax was first introduced, I heard numerous complaints stating that it was inconsistent and was no where near as accurate a Vixen, which a lot of folks said was the most accurate and consistent Excalibur ever made. At that time folks suspected it was due to the forward angled riser. I know quite a few members of this forum who "dumped" their Exomax for this reason. However, being the owner of the now discontinued Exomag which is just as accurate and consistent as any Vixen I ever shot, I came to realize that decreasing its speed, by using a heavier arrow, the Exomax became every bit as accurate and consistent as any of the other "lesser" Excalibur models.

So the point of this long-winded dissertation is a simple one. In my opinion, all Excalibur models are faster than needed. So the only reason, performance wise, one should choose an Exomax over a Vixen is for the increased kinetic energy and not the speed.

Just some food for thought.

[strum]

Well said..I own a Exomax and to me its super accurate.
but i have a hankerin for a lower poundage one such as the pheonix or the axiom..
i think i would enjoy target shooting much more with one of those and get longer string life.BUT i do like the power the exomax has and although i know a well placed shot is most important its nice to know i got some junk in my trunk when i need it..
its a guy thing..when a Texas ranger(as the story goes) was asked why he carried a 45 he replied "cuz they dont make a 46"

[georgiaboy]

I do agree that speed shouldn't be the main reason when choosing a hunting x-bow. It's not the "end all, be all" for me. But it does have to be considered for the game and terrain your hunting. If i were hunting pronghorn out west i would want a 225/200lb bow with a light arrow rather than a vixen with a heavy arrow. Although the vixen is more than capable of doing the job it wouldn't be my first choice.
Where i hunt we have a mixture of thick pine hill's and open swamp bottom's. I hunt mostly in the swamp's so 35-45yd shot's are common. That's why i keep my arrow's on the light side...cause i suck at judging distance!!!
I would like to shoot a heavier arrow for some of these bigger hog's but i just don't see them that much so i will stick with what work's for me.
Ain't that what it's all about though...finding out what works for you!!!
Enjoy!!!!

[masboy]

I agree I have a vortex that will punch holes at 30 yards with 2114 with my best four arrows .tried the arrows in my equinox shot around one I nch at 30 yds. But put my best shooting gt11 in the equinox and will punch holes at 30 yds.so both bows have same accuracy with the right arrow and weight.my next bow will be a vixen for the reasons strum said.but will do most of my hunting with my vortex.but that mite change once I shoot the vixen.

[wabi]

It's my belief that probably all the Excaliburs have great accuracy potential, but the arrows become a much more important factor as velocity increases.

[one shot scott]

What about trajectory?

[masboy]

I like speed and accuracy but all my best groups from both bows came from shooting a arrow between 400 and 500 gr. I,ll take the accuracy over the speed.but that's just me I,m a accuracy freak .

[Boo]

Speed is important if you want it. If you want to go fast then use 350 gr arrows. Your Excalibur will do it all day long because it is that good. Personally speed amuses me which is why I bought an RDT 125 and 165. I like my Excaliburs to spit out arrows in the 370 to 400 gr range because I like the balance of speed and smoothness on the shot. What you shoot hopefully will be what you want rather than what someone else shoots. These bows are great for personalizing to suit your wants!

[masboy]

I have shot the firebolts with 110 gr brass insert and boltcutters with factory flecthing did not do as well as stock firebolt with boltcutter.shot some great groups at 50 yds with firebolts and boltcutters shooting same arrow over and over. But my problem with firebolts was finding ones that shot too same poi from a dozen.my best groups shot from my equinox came from gt11s with 110 gr brass insert and blazers with 3 degree helix.but only get about three great shooting ones with same poi per dozen.

[wabi]

For the sake of discussion (you're welcome to your opinion, but I doubt you'll change mine ).

I like my Excaliburs to spit out arrows in the 370 to 400 gr range because I like the balance of speed and smoothness on the shot.

Exactly what I've found to be true with my Phoenix. I started with 350 gr arrows and worked up when I first got the bow. I found 375/380 gr arrows to be the best match for the Phoenix. Lighter was faster, but louder with noticeable noise/vibration. Heavier was even "smoother", but not enough to offset the loss of velocity vs noise/vibration. 375/380 gr was the compromise that suited me best. (and just happened to be obtainable with 2 shaft sizes - 2213 or 2215 aluminum with slight length differences and 25 gr point weight adjustments)

I love the weight forward for accuracy and if I had a little
more experience I would be cramming rods into my arrows.

Is it the weight forward, or is it just the added weight?
I shoot aluminum arrows (read next comments) and have found adding weight at the front has very little (if any) change on accuracy potential.

But my problem with firebolts was finding ones that shot too same poi from a dozen.my best groups shot from my equinox came from gt11s with 110 gr brass insert and blazers with 3 degree helix.but only get about three great shooting ones with same poi per dozen.

This comment pretty well sums up my experiences with carbons. The first carbons I tried were better than the most recent, but none of them had the consistency of aluminums as far as accuracy potential. It seems to me as carbons increase in popularity (which means increase in sales, so production is accelerated by manufacturers) the quality drops. I found in my most recent experiment with carbons (summer 2009) groups opened up noticeably when compared to aluminums of the same weight and similar balance (FOC). I could take one arrow (of carbon or aluminum), shoot it repeatedly at the target, and still get the best accuracy with aluminum.
My thoughts are:
Aluminum has been used for arrows for decades and manufacturers have had plenty of time to figure out how to tweak production to perfect the manufacture to tight tolerances. Carbons are fairly new to the market and perfection may not be here yet.

[ComfyBear]

As I stated previously, I've owned various Excaliburs over the years. What I found is that the best performance could be obtained by increasing the arrow weight as I increased the speed potential of my Excaliburs. By performance I don't only mean pinpoint accuracy, but also reduced vibration, and therefore longevity of my crossbow and it's accessories.

What I found was that when using my Vixen (14" powerstroke), an arrow weighing approx. 375 gr. would give me the best performance. To get the same performance with my Exocet 175# or Phoenix I had to use an arrow weighing approx. 400gr. With my Exomag or Vortex, an arrow weighing 418 gr. to 426 gr. was needed. Now with my Exomax, I find that an arrow weighing 440 gr. or more. is needed to achieve the same results.

In other words, from my unscientific findings, it appears that to maintain consistent performance throughout the Excalibur models, the speed should not exceed a certain threshold.

[Limbs and Sticks]

To each their own, I'll keep my speed, from 0 to 40yds plus I use one cross hair no guess work just aim and shoot, this speed thing has been beat to death over the yrs same as heavy shafts over lite ones, heavy ,lite slow or fast shot placement is the key, This is what I know to be a fact.

Wes

[badredbird]

speed is for people ho dont want to judge distances accuracy is everything a fast inaccurate shot sucks, a slowewr accurate shot is best which do you prefer?

[ComfyBear]

To each their own, I'll keep my speed, from 0 to 40yds plus I use one cross hair no guess work just aim and shoot, this speed thing has been beat to death over the yrs same as heavy shafts over lite ones, heavy ,lite slow or fast shot placement is the key, This is what I know to be a fact.
Wes

I agree with you 100%. To each their own. Everyone has their own thoughts of what is best for them.
Personally, accuracy and performance is of the upmost importance. My goal is to achieve the optimal performance that my crossbow is capable of, without placing undue stress on it.

Even though I've owned Excalibur crossbows since 1989 when I first bought the Wolverine, don't think I'm advocating, by any means, that folks change how they use their Excalibur. The sole purpose of my post is meant to be informative, and I'm only stating the facts as I have experienced them over more than a dozen years since I've owned the Excaliburs Exo-series.

[vixenmaster]

Ah speed & Excals models. As much as i like the big hitters & shoot them every now & again owned by other ppl. I doubt i will ever own another Excal bigger than a 175 lb model. I love vixen's & 40 yds or 50 yds on a Pronghorn is certaily doable. Friends its not the Bow but the shooter, lets put it this way can you Hunt! Are you good enuff to get close an look them in the eyeball n drop them ? I have done that most of my life. Thats one of the main reasons i seldom ever shoot my rifles. I will buy another older vixen next yr, then i will look fer an E'cet 165 pounder.