Matrix

Crossbow Hunting

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HW
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Re: Matrix

Post by HW »

Just stopped into Gagnon's in Oshawa today. Watched bow 4 of 5 walk out the door. Kid had a big smile on his face. I looked at the bows but took a great deal on Sorels instead.
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Jab
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Re: Matrix

Post by Jab »

Hey marketing dude; can you either confirm or deny that there may be a 400 ( :shock: :D ) model as well?? Is this true or just a rumour?
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Boo
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Re: Matrix

Post by Boo »

Jab wrote:Hey marketing dude; can you either confirm or deny that there may be a 400 ( :shock: :D ) model as well?? Is this true or just a rumour?
Interesting.
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ninepointer
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Re: Matrix

Post by ninepointer »

I'm looking forward to reading the first real-world field test reports. Wondering how well fixed-blade heads will perform on 18" arrows at those speeds.
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Re: Matrix

Post by vixenmaster »

I shot some 18.5" arrows out of my E'cet 200 yrs ago twas accurate n fast. I had them weighin 352 grs total
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Re: Matrix

Post by Migabby »

I think as long as you have a good FOC on the shaft. 18" isn't going to be a problem. I would however think that the heavier heads (175gr) could cause a problem. Might be better to stay in the 125gr.range.But time will prove that either way.
When compounds first came out in the 70's it was thought that any arrow shorter than 32" could not be accurate. Over time this has proven to be false as some verticle bow shafts are now under 26". Crossbows have an edge with a longer, ramp for the string to launch the shaft that removes or at least reduces the compression or oscillation from the shaft, as compared to a verticle bow.
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Re: Matrix

Post by Boo »

Jab wrote:Hey marketing dude; can you either confirm or deny that there may be a 400 ( :shock: :D ) model as well?? Is this true or just a rumour?
If it's coming then we'd have heard about it already. There is a race to get all the retailers to commit to ordering the bows. That's why the early release of 500 bows through the continent. It's much easier to convince the public with bows as opposed to iffy marketing.
That being said, a boost of only 20 ft/sec? Is it worth it? Is the 380 more practical? I like the idea of the 380 and am not too sure how much useful a 400 would be? It certainly wouldn't be much of a step up would it? I like the 355 too and would like to see something in the 300 ft/sec range as well.
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Re: Matrix

Post by vixenmaster »

Boo, good post I i was thinkin of one in the 325-330 fps range. Light decent speed short easy to use n handle. Yes yes a Super Vixen! :)
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taz3
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Re: Matrix

Post by taz3 »

vixenmaster wrote:Boo, good post I i was thinkin of one in the 325-330 fps range. Light decent speed short easy to use n handle. Yes yes a Super Vixen! :)
^For sure!!^ Everyone could benefit from the decreased size and weight, more then increased power IMO. The 2 xbows that may suffer with sales, will be the Equinox and Exomax, because the 355 Matrix has more of a fps advantage.

With the speed of sound at 1126 fps not far off 3X's the speed the 380, the hunter will only gain a few more yards of responsible shooting compared with bolts traveling at 350 fps.
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Re: Matrix

Post by Migabby »

All the talk about the 400 made me think that the extra 20 fps was not worth the extra physical effort that might be required for most people were as the 380 might be done by a larger percentage a thus more practicle. The 325 idea is a good one, could replace our Vixens with a "Super Vixen" with less or the same amount of effort. Some of us, older and or with disabilities, may not even be able to cock the 355 with out a Crank-A- roooo.
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Bill T
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Re: Matrix

Post by Bill T »

Hi Guys
I've been unable to reply till now but I'd like to take a few minutes to get some "hands-on" info out and hopefully calm some of the mis-information and speculation down.
I've been involved in the entire development of the Matrix series and can comment with some certainty regarding it's features and use after hunting and shooting with it.
First off, yes, the draw weights are high, but the ease of drawing a crossbow relates to a lot more than just poundage. Because the draw stroke is so much shorter (5") than the 225 pound bows we have sold till now, you don't have to raise your hands nearly as far to cock it when using a rope cocker, in fact you are pulling the handles 10" less. This means peak load is distributed to a different and stronger set of muscles and is easier. In reality the 380 is much easier to cock than an Equinox. Because the Matrix series is much more efficient at putting the cocking energy into the arrow, that means the energy loaded to achieve 30 more FPS is actually LESS than you load in the less efficient 225s. It also means less energy to decellerate as the limbs and string slam forward, so less noise on firing.
Why use 18" arrows? Because they fit! The shorter frame leaves a 20" arrow dangling beyond the stirrup, and in our testing we discovered no difference in accuracy and performance with the shorter arrow. I shot a big bull moose this year with one from a 380 and it travelled from front shoulder to opposite hip before exiting. Pretty good performance for a 350 grain package that is being maligned as inaccurate and inefficient!.
The anti-dryfire is only on the 380 for a good reason too. In our testing we dryfired a lot, and although the 355 survived almost always, the 380 often failed in dryfire. For the first time in Excalibur's history, we have a compelling reason to spend the time and money to produce a dryfire protection system.
Now to the rumor about a possible Matrix 400. This new series of crossbows will not stop at 2 models (and a color varient). We intend to continue to experiment to improve and possibly we can increase velocity, reduce limb width, make lighter more compact models, etc, etc, etc. We are far from done but NOTHING will be shipped by Excalibur without ABSOLUTE faith that reliability and utility are not compromised. Excalibur has excelled by making baby steps not by throwing untried product into the market like some other firms and will continue to do so.
If I missed any of the big questions or concerns here please let me know and I'm tickled pink that our newest effort is finally getting out where the people who will really appreciate it will be able try it and to add their own comments to mine
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Re: Matrix

Post by Jab »

Boo wrote:
Jab wrote:Hey marketing dude; can you either confirm or deny that there may be a 400 ( :shock: :D ) model as well?? Is this true or just a rumour?
If it's coming then we'd have heard about it already. There is a race to get all the retailers to commit to ordering the bows. That's why the early release of 500 bows through the continent. It's much easier to convince the public with bows as opposed to iffy marketing.
That being said, a boost of only 20 ft/sec? Is it worth it? Is the 380 more practical? I like the idea of the 380 and am not too sure how much useful a 400 would be? It certainly wouldn't be much of a step up would it? I like the 355 too and would like to see something in the 300 ft/sec range as well.
Thanks Boo; your reply makes perfect sense. No one needs the extra 20 fts except for bragging rights :lol: . I am just trying to determine my options fully before spending my hard earned pennies on this new, sure to be a huge hit, model.

Thanks again
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IronNoggin
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Re: Matrix

Post by IronNoggin »

Awesome reply and information Bill T! Sincerely Appreciated!!

Just confirms my already-made-up thoughts on the Matrix 380, and in fact ordered TODAY!!! :twisted:
I can hardly wait!

Cheers & Many Many THANKS for all you do! :D

Cheers,
Nog
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excalibrett
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Re: Matrix

Post by excalibrett »

Bill T wrote:Hi Guys
I've been unable to reply till now but I'd like to take a few minutes to get some "hands-on" info out and hopefully calm some of the mis-information and speculation down.
I've been involved in the entire development of the Matrix series and can comment with some certainty regarding it's features and use after hunting and shooting with it.
First off, yes, the draw weights are high, but the ease of drawing a crossbow relates to a lot more than just poundage. Because the draw stroke is so much shorter (5") than the 225 pound bows we have sold till now, you don't have to raise your hands nearly as far to cock it when using a rope cocker, in fact you are pulling the handles 10" less. This means peak load is distributed to a different and stronger set of muscles and is easier. In reality the 380 is much easier to cock than an Equinox. Because the Matrix series is much more efficient at putting the cocking energy into the arrow, that means the energy loaded to achieve 30 more FPS is actually LESS than you load in the less efficient 225s. It also means less energy to decellerate as the limbs and string slam forward, so less noise on firing.
Why use 18" arrows? Because they fit! The shorter frame leaves a 20" arrow dangling beyond the stirrup, and in our testing we discovered no difference in accuracy and performance with the shorter arrow. I shot a big bull moose this year with one from a 380 and it travelled from front shoulder to opposite hip before exiting. Pretty good performance for a 350 grain package that is being maligned as inaccurate and inefficient!.
The anti-dryfire is only on the 380 for a good reason too. In our testing we dryfired a lot, and although the 355 survived almost always, the 380 often failed in dryfire. For the first time in Excalibur's history, we have a compelling reason to spend the time and money to produce a dryfire protection system.
Now to the rumor about a possible Matrix 400. This new series of crossbows will not stop at 2 models (and a color varient). We intend to continue to experiment to improve and possibly we can increase velocity, reduce limb width, make lighter more compact models, etc, etc, etc. We are far from done but NOTHING will be shipped by Excalibur without ABSOLUTE faith that reliability and utility are not compromised. Excalibur has excelled by making baby steps not by throwing untried product into the market like some other firms and will continue to do so.
If I missed any of the big questions or concerns here please let me know and I'm tickled pink that our newest effort is finally getting out where the people who will really appreciate it will be able try it and to add their own comments to mine

Thanks, Bill. You da man!!!! :D :D
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Re: Matrix

Post by Boo »

Migabby wrote:All the talk about the 400 made me think that the extra 20 fps was not worth the extra physical effort that might be required for most people were as the 380 might be done by a larger percentage a thus more practicle. The 325 idea is a good one, could replace our Vixens with a "Super Vixen" with less or the same amount of effort. Some of us, older and or with disabilities, may not even be able to cock the 355 with out a Crank-A- roooo.
It's not just the poundage it's were the poundage is (at the top of the cocking stroke). If I were to only buy one bow (get me the soap) then I would go to the 355. But a tiny recurve bow that spits out an arrow over 300 ft/sec would have a high cool factor!
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