Not a rant, just an observation.

[ComfyBear]

The ADF post might have been started off with good intentions, but ultimately it was doomed from the onset. I wasn't surprised that the thread went downhill quite quickly, getting to where it became a pointless and heated debate which wasn't constructive or solving the issue.

Hopefully the forum members have learned from this event, and realize that posting about an issue that hasn't been investigated leads nowhere, and only creates animosity.

Personally I've had two issues with Excalibur products, not bad considering I've owned 8 or 9 Excalibur crossbows since 1989. Instead of posting on the forum, I only discussed it with the folks who could address those issues best, Excalibur staff. In doing so, both issues were resolved quickly, without a hitch or ruffled feather.

Just some food for thought, the next time someone might have an issue.

[sumner4991]

I have always thought that a problem should be presented to the company first when product quality is in question. Let the company have a chance to explain and/or fix. If that fails, then take it public.

I can't tell you how many times this has saved me the embarrassment of public apology for being ignorant.

[Bullzeye]

This is the least moderated forum I belong too, the few times a mod steps in here is nothing compared to other forum's where mods go on power trips, we have it good here, so no need to stress out fellers.

[secret]

I am so glad that [edited] got a Matrix yet.

[catcher]

[quote="sumner4991"]I have always thought that a problem should be presented to the company first when product quality is in question. Let the company have a chance to explain and/or fix. If that fails, then take it public.

X 2

[Pydpiper]

I think if we bypassed the threads with premature serving wear (I learned how to to buff my latches here), triggers that aren't as crisp as some had hoped, limb divots, inconsistent arrows(POI), scope shifts, loose screws, pulled nocks and the other ones that we have all learned from..
All we would have left in the off season is threads about hangnails, prayer requests and attacks on newbies, like the tattoo thread. This forum is riddled with O/T stuff, there should be more bow/hunting stuff, not less.

OP asked for an opinion. He got one.
Like comfy bear said, everyone should learn something from this thread.
For me, I learned that once the ADF is engaged, you need to have a rope cocker with the Matrix. Latch engagement issue aside, that is not related.
I also learned I can't spell "convenience" without my spell check turned on.

A little disappointed some of you think that bow issues should be discussed with the company first, and a bit surprised they picked this thread to voice it instead of the ones that involve the bow, like the latches needing emery cloth at times when new.
That thread had the potential to bring up some experience about what people can do in that event, instead it went in a different direction.
My Exocet doesn't need a rope cocker, it sure helps, but it isn't mandatory. If nothing else, I hope nobody else forgets their rope cocker, the Matrix makes it from a tool of convenience, to a mandatory item.
Sweet bow though! Big fan of that Blackout!

[Tom]

I have been on this forum (& the excal forum before this one) for many many years. I have and still use the Orginal Relayer which I bought new from Bill and Kathy.

I have had only two problems which were minor. I had a bolt break and a scope fail. They told me what size, type and what hardness was required for the bolt and they replaced the scope.

For my bolt problem, I never posted it on the forum, I contacted Excalibur dirrectly as they were the best hope of getting an answer for my problem. For the scope, I used the forum to ask questions to see if it was actually the scope or if it might have been something else causing my problems. Bill contacted me and told me that he was positive it was the scope and wanted my contact (address) information so he could get a replacement off to me as fast as possible.

The forum is a great place to solve minor problems amoung ourselves. It is a great place to offer ideas for new inventions or different ways of doing things. But the forum is not a great place to try and figure out things that most do not know about. I have hunted and been around crossbows for over 30 years so I have seen and heard about many different things which have or could happen with them. But somethings should always stay with the company until the true facts come out so there is little fact of misleading information gets put forth as the truth in a manor just to bash a company (it does not matter what company).

To be honest, I do not even know about the thread you were talking about, but lets find out first what the problem was before we start saying it was this or that.

Tom

[onebigskittle]

[quote="Pydpiper"]I think if we bypassed the threads with premature serving wear (I learned how to to buff my latches here), triggers that aren't as crisp as some had hoped, limb divots, inconsistent arrows(POI), scope shifts, loose screws, pulled nocks and the other ones that we have all learned from..
All we would have left in the off season is threads about hangnails, prayer requests and attacks on newbies, like the tattoo thread.

Not only the tattoo thread but the ones with that girl Calcobrena.
The tattoo thread was more of a welcome than some gave her

[Pydpiper]

Not sure I remember her, is that the one who came here and told everyone we shouldn't have guns and firearms were not "fair to animals"? Relentlesy pushed her ati views and condemed anything she didn't personaly believe in?
Almost the same as a tattoo.

[onebigskittle]

She was different ...or was she ?..she just voiced her views just like we all do but she was kicked around for it.
Was it ok to do that ? No but she was.
She just wanted to know a few things about crossbows and if she had not told anything else about herself or her views she would have blended right in.
So with the tattoo thread it was a few guys having fun with someone that was enjoying it all in fun,The new guy was told welcome and im sure understood as we all did.
If and when talking about Crossbows,hunting,fishing becomes not fun then its time to give it up.
I may be wrong and correct me if i am ...what rules are their that said no joking or playing ? Maybe its me but i dont want to be aroud people i cant enjoy and have fun with from time to time...hell maybe thats what makes the other forums so messed up ...they want it one way all the time and maybe their rules pervent fun and comrodery.
The way i see it is if its good for one then its good for all and i dont think any one person should rant or have an observation if first they cant look at themself first.

[ComfyBear]

To be honest, I do not even know about the thread you were talking about, but lets find out first what the problem was before we start saying it was this or that.

Tom you didn't miss much, because without seeing it you "nailed" the problem with that post. Although everyone had good intentions and tried to help, it was a case of "too many cooks", myself included , who each had an opinion which didn't actually solve the problem. Instead it's appeared to have created misunderstandings and probably hard feelings.

For my part, if I ruffled anyone's feathers, please accept my heartfelt apologies, as that wasn't my intention, as those who know me, know that's not my style.

[ComfyBear]

Not sure I remember her, is that the one who came here and told everyone we shouldn't have guns and firearms were not "fair to animals"? Relentlesy pushed her ati views and condemed anything she didn't personaly believe in?]

She'd be the one. The same one you took the time to check out her Facebook page, and reported back to us that she was one member of a lesbian couple.

[XcaliburFX]

First off, I have not been here long. However, with that being said, I have moderated and administrated many forums in my time on the internet.

What I have learned is that (almost) anytime a thread has to be closed or pulled for any reason, you are going to have members that tend to frown upon it. We (as forum members) tend to make ourselves at home, which is what most forum owners want us to do, we settle in and before long it becomes "our" forum. Yep, no longer the owners or company's forum, but our forum. Why? Human nature I suppose ... hmm "human", you know I suppose the owners of said forums, as well as they admins and moderators are "human" as well. Well that makes sense, no wonder they mess up from time to time and do things we may not agree with. Well, I suppose it is really only an opinion if it was a mess up or otherwise bad move.

Folks, especially the OP, please do not misunderstand me. I am in no way trying to make light of your opinions, after all we all have that "human" right to object or otherwise disagree about how something was done. More especially in a place we have come to know as ours.?.? My point, we must remember that while we may have joined a forum and became a member of said forums or site, that we actually do not own the forum / site. Yup, those other humans that setup the forum own it, and honestly they could close it it just as fast and let us discuss their products elsewhere and never even communicate with us at all. One or two incidents that we may or may not agree with do not reflect how the actual owners or administrators may feel about the community as a whole. Nor does it reflect on how they take care of their products. It only shows that they, being human also, have done something that we may or may not agree with and honestly I see that in families in every walk of life.

Speaking, entirely for myself, I always consider myself a guest in a friend or a family members home .... the same goes for a forum or site that is not of my ownership. While true I may be a friend, family member or just a patron / fan of a forum, their house or forum is not mine to run. Why? I do not pay their bills or have to deal with their headaches of trying to accomplish providing a nice enjoyable place to visit. I am thankful that I do not, as heck I have enough issues in my own backyard that are my responsibility.

Yes, being able to learn from someones problem with certain products etc etc is a valuable thing. But, you have to ask yourself ... when has it gone too far and how long has the horse been beaten. There is a time to stop sometimes, whether we agree or not. And as a human running a forum, we sometimes do the unthinkable and actually step in and either remove or close a thread.

No, I did not see or read the thread, I am simply just giving you an insiders (from someone who has had to make such decisions on forums before) look on why sometimes things happen the way they do, and that despite what one may think we are all still human and prone to making decisions that affect each other irregardless of which side of the fence we stand on. Does it mean that we have to stand for an indiscretion or any form of mistreatment that a forum may throw our way? Nope not at all, but you yourself must decide if it is truly worth getting riled up over.

Ok, time for me to shut up now, as I can hardly remember why I even started writing this anyway. lol

Peace my friends.

~XcaliburFX~

[Pydpiper]

She'd be the one. The same one you took the time to check out her Facebook page, and reported back to us that she was one member of a lesbian couple.

Lou. First, I didn't get that information from a "Facebook" page, I read multiple blogs and posts on other forums from her before I shared what I had learned. Hours of research, not a brief look at someone.
Not once, contrary to your "skimming" of my posts did I see, nor say I had seen anything from "Facebook".
To be clear, when I decide to engage someone in a debate, be it friendly or otherwise, I do my homework. It keeps me from looking silly when I lay stuff on the table, like you just did,
Second.. That girl had an "Anti agenda" that did nobody any good, she came here with the intention of speaking "crossbow", but it quickly became apparent that her only intention was to use the forums good natured flow to spread her word.
Her word spoke loudly about why she thinks hunting is unfair to animals, guns are overkill and not sporting.
I can see why you side with her, that is no mystery either. You keep talking about your "ownership" of bows for "many years", but in all my time here.. All my time, I have never seen you post anything about hunting, no pictures, no experience, nothing but words.
Experience with these bows comes from usage, the more you use one, the more you are likely to experience. Yesterday I went on 2 hunts, today one. The day before was a couple too, tomorrow, more.
When I type, it is based on my experience with a hunting bow, in a hunting environment. Statistics will dictate that usage will be greatly influence variables in the field.
Before you judge my opinion, be assured, it isn't based from a house in Toronto, it is based on experience in the field. Does that make sense?
I know you threw the work "Facebook" out there to win over the masses, but if you go back and actually read, you will see that social media sites had nothing to do with my opinion on that anti.
That girl represents everything that is wrong with America, her goal was to belittle hunters and their choice of weapons. People need more voices to stand up to trolls like that.
I know you have a bone to pick with me, and I also know why. If you have a fact based opinion to discuss with me, I am all ears, but please don't think that a simple "facebook" search is where I derived my information.
If you choose to butt heads with me for the sake of looking smart, please do so in a means that isn't public, it does nobody any good.
Thanks for your consideration.
Also, there is a vast difference between a dude who has an Excalibur tattoo (real or not), and a girl who thinks we should all be disarmed.
If you would like to discuss this further, I would be honoured.
pydpiper(at)gmail.com
I will also send you my phone number when I am done this post. I have nothing to hide, nor to I like to be misquoted or accused of scanning Facebook for information.
David

[Pydpiper]

The tattoo thread was more of a welcome than some gave her

Please read my post addressed to comfybear.
And no, it wasn't.