Bowhunting and speed

[agingcrossbower]

What do you all feel about bowhunting and the direction towards more speed is better. I have been over at Archerytalk.com pissing more than a few people off because I feel that ARChery has arc in the name for a reason and pushing more and more speeds eliminate the need for judging distances at 0-30yards so speed will only lead to longer and longer shots. Now my thought is that the bow and arrow was aways meant to be a close range hunting weapon anything else just ruins the challenge of the sport itself. Anybody have an opinion on this??

[Cossack]

I too enjoy shooting close but also enjoy a 355 fps compound bow just for fun. Fast bows have a downside most folks don't consider: everything, esp the arrow, has to be just right to get consistent accuracy. Bows around 300 fps are much more forgiving on that score.
Speed has always appealed to a a certain segment and always will. (Witness the magnum rifle cult). Personally all my deer kills with a bow have been under 30 yards, I don't need anything faster than my Excaliburs to get that done.

[wheelie]

A very good question:
Fast is good. It will separate the men from the boys among bow companies. I for one have never and will never get caught up in the speed game. I am one of few it seems that is going in reverse. I try to see how slow I can go and protect my bad back. To each their own. Only problem I see is crossbows have a horrible image with the general population and rules on crossbows with be changed eventually. Hope they put a speed limit on new rules and leave us slow pokes alone. Eventually one will blow up from speed and kill someone and that will change the game yet again.

[needmorebacon]

I'll say this I shot less than 25-30 on any xbow kill and my current stand has no further than a 15yd shot. That being said my Axiom claims 305fps with 350gr arrow. My GT's with 175s are 528gr...I like the knockdown

[wabi]

I suppose there are two valid sides to the argument.

On one hand those old guys like me who are out there for the fun and challenge of outwitting the quarry are happy with about anything that will sling an arrow. I've never hunted with a bow that propels an arrow faster than 300fps, and I've killed enough game to keep meat in the pantry all year long for a few decades now.
The longest kill shot I've made in recent years was just over 20 yards.

On the other hand those less patient hunters do gain an advantage from more arrow speed. The person who isn't willing to pass a shot over 30 yards has a better chance of actually killing a deer with a faster bow.

Every year I have to sit back and bite my tongue when I read some of the shots that are attempted. And some of those do turn out with a deer harvested which to me is unfortunate because it encourages others to try those "iffy" shots.

A deer at 0-25 yards standing almost perfectly broadside is what I consider the perfect shot. Put an arrow through both lungs (easy to do with almost any bow and a little practice before the hunt) and it's a short blood trail to an animal that didn't suffer.
Those deer at 53 yards facing the hunter (hypothetical situation) and an arrow in the neck sometimes ends up with a dead deer recovered, but all too often ends up feeding the scavengers a few days later. All too often because the person doing the shooting is simply afraid the "bragging rights" will be lost.

I had a decent buck at about 35-40 yards the other evening. Instead of grabbing the bow and slinging an arrow in his direction (I think of the "hail Mary pass in football) I simply watched him go about his business and was thinking of how I might get closer the next time he comes through.
I'd say I might have had an 80-90% chance of putting a good hit on him, but I'm willing to wait for a 99% chance. (it's never 100%, I've missed enough of those that I thought were 100% over the years to know better now )

Speed is good, but patience is better!

[tradshooter]

Well I go to Archery talk and a few other forums as I love to shoot my recurve!!!! I will challenge any compound shooter to a fun game of stalk and shoot at randomly placed targets. Speed is NOT the way to determine either a kill or distance.... As previously mentioned look at the magnum calibers out there!!! they shoot too fast for close range shots and the bullet doesn't have time to open properly. Ok back on track here....... Speed..... I like the "arc" approach as you will be able to shoot over tall grass knowing the arrow will travel above the grass or shrubs than having to pass because your arrow shoots like a bullet..... It is really not the speed that kills it is the energy that is placed upon the arrow to make that arrow stick in and do it's job. Getting off track here ...... you can do a lot more with a recurve than you can with a compound... as for arrow speed that is what sells products. It is a very big top of the line selling tool plain and simple. You have to ask yourself does it have the energy to make that clean humane harvest? or will you shoot that animal and the wounds heal because of too much speed? This is something that is and will be argued for centuries to come. Don't think any of this makes sence but was nice to have MHO.

[Masboy]

I have no problem with the slower bows an that,s what I shoot hunting an on the range. all my vertical bows were not the speed demons I always went for smooth an forgiving. the only problem with crossbows for me even at close range our deer seem to react so much more from the noise. I don,t know if a louder super fast bow would make any difference ? yes I would like a fast bow for hunting if it was quiet an smooth an not for shooting farther just better for placing my arrow where I want at my hunting range.

[Backstraps]

I think one of the reasons that speed will always be a selling point is that bow companies see it as avenue of advancement. They can only make a bow so short and so lightweight. They already have bows that offer 75-80 let off. How many ways can they really improve on current compound bow technology other than the numbers. They push the design and add 5-10 fps to the speed number and they have a whole new model to push to the market in 2014. Is it really that much better than the 2013 model? No, but they still have to sell bows to stay in business. Will everyone run out and buy that new bow each year because it is the new faster bow? No, but some will and that drives the machine.

That push will also keep the rest of the industry pushing as well. You don't want to get left behind because by the time you realize you are in that position, it is much more difficult to get your market share back. There will always be competition in industry and that is what drives innovation. It may not always be for speed either. Sometimes that innovation is taking a pound off the weight off a bow or taking 6 inches off the width. While the Matrix line started with the fastest Excalibur, if we are lucky that platform will also lead to more compact slower versions as well. Good for us that don't care as much as much about speed but that innovation was driven by speed in the industry. Competition is good for consumers as long as that drive to be number one doesn't cloud judgement and lead to shortcuts in the process or testing. Speed doesn't do you a whole heck of a lot of good if you can't keep your limbs from splintering. Reliability is key to customer loyalty, especially from those of us that prefer recurve crossbows.

[agingcrossbower]

Mercy, the answers on here are much different than the other forum. As one avid bowhunter said, there are bowhunters and deerhunters. One lives for the sport and the other lives to harvest a deer only. You people are a breath of fresh air. Thanks for responsing.

[agingcrossbower]

"speed is good, but patience is better. I am going do my best to remember that quote. And, with me, that a challenge in and of itself.

[bob1961]

to me speed is for the ones who don't know or want to set up any bow to shoot right at high speed....give me a heavy arrow to any lighter set up anytime, yes that saying is true "speed kills" ....it kills bow and components with higher vibrations, make more noise when arrow is released for deer to duck arrows....in fact i'm going to make a wooden stock soon as I get my junk together this spring I hope, just to give my exocet 200 more dampening to it when I release my 500gr arrows....I see these yahoo's on tv shooting shows shooting out to 80 yards, look at the new bow sights out that once you sight in at 20 and 30 they say your good out to 80 to 100 yards with shots ????????

[nchunterkw]

Great thread. IMO.............
the "advantage" speed gets you is a flatter trajectory. But as tradshooter pointed out, hat is not always an advantage. It also gets you a higher KE leaving the bow, but KE does not kill animals, momentum and penetration do. And just as KE increases with the square of the velocity, the resistance forces in animal tissue also increase with the square of the velocity. So to get good penetration - you need to add weight. Personally, I shoot a heavy arrow for that exact reason.

Advantages to a heavier arrow are: less noise, less vibration, more "forgiveness" from the bow, better terminal penetration.

I'm all for the manufacturers making faster bows. I don't have to setup my arrows to achieve that max speed, but it means I can go heavier and stay at the speed I'm at, or stay at the weight I'm at and get a little more energy.

[vixenmaster]

I will wade on into this subject fer a little bit. I don't use a range finder why cause i don't own one. Why cause at this time this poor boy can't afford one. So I have measured all my life since i started usin Bows in 1958. I do well 40 yds n under, over that i tend to get several yds off the farther out the worse i do. I have no shootin lanes, i have holes i pick to shooot my tick toters through. The slower Bow i have the closer i make my shots. The faster my Bow i can n do extend my range abit. I like comfort n easy to handle in my Bows, i prefer Excals & don't own anything other than them. Most of mine are of the slower models, reason is the easy n comfort. I am not a speed is a must person but i would like to own the Matrix 355. Its fast enuff when i use arrows from 385gr up to 650gr. What i like is its shorter smaller n lighter. Since i killed the 7 pt the other day i have been usin my E'cet 200, ugh what a handful fer 330 ft fps! The balance is off fer me, its abit top/front heavy in my climber. On the bench its wonderful n fairly fast, but luggin it around is the pits! Maybe i am gettin to old n crippled up fer these long mainframe/railed models.

[Boo]

Mike, I think the previous generation of archers would be saying the same thing about the speeds you like. It wasn't long ago that 250 ft/sec was considered fast and before that 180 ft/sec. Speed is relative and it's good to some degree.
But who is going to draw the line? What speed and why? I think this next generation is going to think we shot slow bows! Should we dictate what others shoot? Are we going to have different rules for bears and antelope? It's a slippery slope to be sure.
I don't have the answers and neither does anyone but one things for sure the faster it is the more the young pups we are going to have in the field tomorrow.

[Kegbelly]

Like it or not it's all about money. Business 101, give the customer what he wants, if you don't he'll take his $$ elsewhere. The customer wants faster faster faster, lighter and more compact, so that's what they build or they get left behind. I don't believe it will stop anytime soon, but at some point the law of diminishing returns comes into play, how fast can you make a bow without sacrificing something else somewhere, like noise, reliability, excessive wear, accuracy, etc. There's tradeoffs to everything.
Personally I think the quest for more speed is a two-edged sword, it's good in that you get flatter trajectory and less likelihood of string jumping at traditional archery distances, bad in that it's going to tempt a lot of folks to extend their range significantly and inevitably wound animals they can't retrieve. My .02