String Jump

Crossbow Hunting

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Significent
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String Jump

Post by Significent »

I know the topic has been talked about by everyone, probably since the first bow was invented. I've seen a few semi-scientific discussions on the topic, but nothing I’d consider definitive. The topic probably isn't as important as it could be because every animal reacts differently. Even the generalization that “an alarmed deer, if given the chance, will jump the string but a relaxed deer won’t” isn't true all of the time. So, this thread is mostly for curiosity’s sake.

With Sheila, my new Matrix 380, I wondered about how much string-jump could be a factor as compared to my vertical bow. Most discussions on the subject reference either string-jump due to the sound of the bow or due to movement of the bow. Most don’t discuss both and I haven’t seen any good discussion that factor in the speed of sound. So, I figured I’d do a little calculating. But before I could begin, I needed some hard facts. For instance, what is an average deer’s reaction time in seconds? I could find a pretty good number for humans but not deer. It’s about 0.16 seconds for humans. That’s the time it takes for you to recognize a stimulus and move your hand because of it. In school you probably did a little physics experiment catching a falling ruler and figuring out your reaction time based on the number of inches the ruler fell. Part of reaction time has to do with nerve conduction speed and distance. Since nerve conduction speed in mammals is pretty similar, small mammals would generally have faster reaction times than larger animals (although larger diameter nerves have faster conduction speeds). It should follow that: Since the distance of a human being’s brain to hand is probably about a third longer than the distance from a deer’s brain to the muscles in their front shoulder, a deer’s reaction time could be about 0.11 seconds. That’s my first assumption, not a hard fact. (If anyone has real data, I’d like to hear about it.) My second assumption is that the speed of sound is about 1,116 feet per second. That’s at standard temperature and pressure. The number changes with differences in each. My third assumption is that the acceleration due to gravity is 32.174 feet per second squared. Depending where you are on earth, that number changes a tiny bit too. All of these assumptions, except maybe a deer’s reaction time, should be more than close enough for government work. The calculations aren’t easy to show on the forum, so I’ve put them in an Excel spreadsheet and made them available here:

Code: Select all

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/14080410/StringJumpCalc.xlsx
The spreadsheet is protected, but not with a password. (You can unprotect it and play with the formulae if you like.) The cells shaded in pink are unprotected so you can input your own numbers and see your own customized results. (The 55 yd. column lets you put in any distance you like)
I’m wondering whether the numbers generated by the spreadsheet seem to correlate with what you’ve all seen with your bows. I’d also appreciate it if you would punch holes in any of my assertions and, if you’re so inclined, check my math. If the assertions and calculations are right, the spreadsheet could be useful to quell curiosity. Please let me know what you think.
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Re: String Jump

Post by georgiaboy »

To much math makes my head hurt!! :shock:
My personal experience...shot at a semi alert doe years ago with my vertical bow, shooting 280ish. At a ranged 31yds she string jumped me so fast all i could do was tip my hat. :?
Won't never try that again. :mrgreen:
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Re: String Jump

Post by vixenmaster »

Have you watched my video on you tube ? Its showin a mature Doe thats fully alarmed & even see's the Hunter. Hunter is usin E'cet 175 wid carved tip limbs on it & a dacron flemish string
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Re: String Jump

Post by Boo »

Every deer is different as well as their moods (did they just hear a coyote or did they smell something they didn't like a few minutes ago), every shot situation is different. Sometimes they react to the sound and I'm betting some are reacting to seeing the movement of the limbs flex on the shot. If that is the case factor in the speed of light
Just throwing more greens into the mix. :mrgreen:
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Re: String Jump

Post by Kegbelly »

I dont think you can effectively measure a deer's reaction time, I think it varies from animal to animal and can vary widely depending on the circumstances. Sometimes you get lucky, and sometimes they beat you.
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Re: String Jump

Post by Significent »

georgiaboy, plugging 280 ft per sec and 31 yards into the spreadsheet suggests the deer could very easily have jumped the string if it saw the bow movement and could have dropped 7.4 inches startling from only the sound of the bow. That fits what you've described.
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Re: String Jump

Post by Significent »

vixenmaster, I haven't seen your video. I'll look for it as I'm eager to see.
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Re: String Jump

Post by Significent »

Don, I mention the speed of light in the spreadsheet. To be sure, every situation is indeed different. I'm hoping to find the worst case scenario for the hunter. That would seem a good place to work from.
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Re: String Jump

Post by Boo »

Significent wrote:Don, I mention the speed of light in the spreadsheet. To be sure, every situation is indeed different. I'm hoping to find the worst case scenario for the hunter. That would seem a good place to work from.
If your intent is to have a baseline for people to think about and related to I think it's an excellent idea and especially for those who are new to the game.
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Re: String Jump

Post by Significent »

Kegbelly, I agree every deer is different. Reaction time for the same deer is undoubtedly different at different times depending on the situation. I'm hoping to give the deer as much credit as possible so as to come up with the worst case for the hunter. The human reaction time is an average too, but I think it's still useful.
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Re: String Jump

Post by Significent »

vixenmaster, I had seen your youtube video before. I recognized it when I saw it That deer didn't do a successful string jump :D . It's difficult to tell where the arrow hit and at what angle. What was the distance to the deer and speed of your arrow?
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Re: String Jump

Post by Kegbelly »

Significent, If you haven't seen this thread already, it ended up being a pretty interesting discussion on deer reaction times and string jumping...
We didnt factor in the speed of light though :lol:

http://www.excaliburcrossbow.com/phpBB2 ... ased+range
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Re: String Jump

Post by vixenmaster »

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Re: String Jump

Post by vixenmaster »

21 yds fps 275 est
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Re: String Jump

Post by Significent »

vixenmaster, plugging those numbers in the spreadsheet, the deer would only have been able to drop 1.76 inches if it saw the bow movement and wouldn't have had time to drop at all (0.05 inches) after only hearing the string.

So far, the assumptions and calculations still seem good.

Edit: Correction, 5.48" if the deer saw the bow movement, 1.52" if it only heard the string. (I forgot to change the speed from 355fps down to 275fps). If it was a neck shot with the dear facing you and it dropped 5.5" you would probably have hit neck and chest. As you can see from mistake above, speed of the arrow makes a pretty big difference.
Matrix 380 Camo (Sheila)
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