Flat trajectory

[dabluz]

I just took my hunter's course to obtain my permit to hunt with a crossbow here in Quebec. The 2 monitors who gave the course seem biased towards using traditional and compound bows. Ok....one of them has a 150 lb compound crossbow.

Anyway, both recommended iron sights (illuminated) and did not think that scopes were very useful. Also....they both said that an arrow from a compound bow had a flatter trajectory than a bolt from a crossbow. They also said that an arrow from a compound bow had more energy than a bolt from a crossbow even though I said that if a compound bow shot a 400 grain arrow at 300 fps would have the same energy as a 400 grain bolt at 300 fps.

I told them that the energy would be the same because energy is a combination of weight X speed.

[Galgo]

Hoooey! Physics is Physics as a the great Scottie told Captn Kirk "..Ya can't change the laws of physics Captain!" WRT to a scope ...yes of course you can use open sights. I prefer the scope because of its light gathering characteristics and magnification..personal choice.

F

[Dash]

I hear ya Dabluz,
I come across many experienced vertical archers who try and tell me all sorts of rubbish
The principals between the two are the same , so I don't understand where their logic comes from.
I was told here by archers that crossbows are way to dangerous to use at their archery club. Because crossbows I'm told........are about 3 times the poundage of their vertical bows, so that means 3 times more speed (same as a rifle I hear) Unfortunately I was also told that because bolts are short, they're only accurate up to about 20 yards
Rather than argue, I ended up getting the opportunity to educate a few in an open archery competition. After winning the forest shoot with targets up to 60 meters, I was then told by some that crossbows can't shoot clout at 180 meters.....But I had come prepared for this next event.
I bolted on the home made mirror box I had made but had not previously tested, and screwed on 200 grain field tips. After 15 minutes of mirror adjustments, I hit their clout with 3 out of 6 arrows at 180 meters using the IBEX. There's nothing better that to shoot down these stupid crossbow myths in front of them

[Hunt it]

Sounds like you had a couple of good old boys teaching the course! Everyone has their preferences and of course they will try and steer you in what they think is correct. Unfortunately they are still stuck in the time warp using flip phones if even have cells!

I have used all the archery tools out there over the years and my favourite is to hunt with traditional longbow. It is a very different style of hunting where one puts him or herself against the game in a spot and stalk situation until you can close the deal to under 20 yards preferably. In this game you really become a true hunter, the stalk you learn to perfect or go hungry! There are no sights you shoot instinctively and the joy of no nuts and bolts and pulleys etc makes it a simpler game. It is not for everyone but it is very satisfying when you get to the point in life when it is not about the kill.

The compound is an excellent tool in the right hands. Your instructors like many will say much more effective than a crossbow because there is a distance when a longer shaft will be more accurate than a shorter bolt. However with the modern day cross bows pushing 400 fops this distance benefit perceived by vertical shooters is greatly diminished. The downside as I saw it with the vertical bow is the pieces and attachments needed to keep one functioning. I found myself on fly in trips having to take what amounted to a tool box full of bits and pieces along with portable bow press. Many of my buddies would bring whole spare bow.

The crossbow provides it all, speed, accuracy , reliability and it's number one benefit is very little movement required at time of shot. This to me is the cross bows greatest advantage. Game sees movement, not much to see in trigger being pulled. The use of scope on crossbow allows for pinpoint accuracy and improved light gathering in low light which is also the top shooting time game wise. As for steel sights they will get it done no issue, good idea to even pack a set of Excalibur fixed sights on a hunting trip in event scope fails you have plan B ready to go.

[xcaliber]

Just remember, there are many kinds of crazy! I'm a vertical addict, but there is no comparison on thwack, accuracy, range, etc. to what the crossbows can do. Now, if you look at it from an efficiency point of view, then they are correct comparing force required to achieve X, but then you don't have to hold the crossbow at draw, it's "automagic". Love to use that word by the way!

[dabluz]

There were about 35 people taking the hunting course....which is obligatory here in Quebec and when asked who owned a bow or a crossbow, only about 6 hands went up. As you can imagine....there were many useless questions about bows and crossbows which made the time pass much slower.

A couple of points were "questionable". Such as; maximum distance to shoot big game was 30 yards and that the preferred method to disarm a crossbow was to shoot a practice arrow into a target or in the ground. They recommended using a thingy that allows a fine string to tag along on the arrow in order to find the animal that was shot and recommended mechanical broadheads.

I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a moose at 50 yards. Anymore than that would depend on a lot of other conditions.

The 50 question test at the end of the course.....I doubt I got 100% because the wording of some of the questions raised a few grey areas in my mind. They could have been a bit more precise. Lots of people asked for help and one young guy had to be coached by one of the monitors in another room.

Luckily my french is top notch because there are a lot of English terms that I know very well but never heard of in French. I have no doubt that I passed the test because I once gave the 2 day hunter safety course for firearms here in Quebec so many questions on safety are the same.

(side note) Out of the 4000 moose shot in Quebec last year, only 85 were shot with a crossbow and only 2 with a vertical bow. Just goes to show that there are not that many that use a bow or crossbow in Quebec. However, the numbers are rising.

There are a few other factors why not so many moose are shot with bolts or arrows....the archery season starts before the rutting season, it's still quite warm so the moose don't move around as much and most people who hunt take their vacation time during the firearm season. In the area where I will be hunting moose, the season sarts on the 30 the of August and ends during the 3 rd week of September. There is a 5 day pause in the hunting and then the firearm season starts for about 19 days. I'm retired so I plan to do both seasons with my crossbow.

[xcaliber]

I had to take one here in Indiana to qualify for a hunt on a military refuge years ago, but I got bow, and gun qualified, and it is a Federally recognized certificate. Same thing, two old timers teaching the course, and they pounded on the safety, and no lost game part of the course. All good in my book though. At the end of it, even though i thought I knew everything, I took away a few tips, and overall a great experience.
Congrats on completing the course!

[Hunt it]

Maybe the reason you have less bow hunters is because the instructors suck! If everyone listens and believes these guys then they have majority convinced that archery tackle is for Robin Hood and Indians (no distaste meant towards my First Nations friends). Either of those instructors wearing a furry loin cloth and dragging a club? Your moose season for archery needs to coincide with the rut and then gun season to follow like here in Ontario. But hard to lobby for that if so few hunt with bow. If you can nail the rut and call the archery season is slam dunk if you know what your doing.

[dabluz]

Maybe the reason you have less bow hunters is because the instructors suck! If everyone listens and believes these guys then they have majority convinced that archery tackle is for Robin Hood and Indians (no distaste meant towards my First Nations friends). Either of those instructors wearing a furry loin cloth and dragging a club? Your moose season for archery needs to coincide with the rut and then gun season to follow like here in Ontario. But hard to lobby for that if so few hunt with bow. If you can nail the rut and call the archery season is slam dunk if you know what your doing.

The 2 instructors really knew their stuff. One is a bank director and the other is a lawyer. Both have been bow hunting for many years and have shot a lot of game....mostly deer and bear. One usually hunts with a traditional bow that is naked....no sights or anything else but the bobin of string. Both hunt almost year round. The bow was made by a guy I know in the region. Beautiful bow.....and expensive.

I didn't get to talk to them (I would have liked to) because the course usually takes 10 hours and we did it in an evening (5 p.m. to 11:30) so at each little break....I headed for the door to have a smoke.

[Hunt it]

You nailed it, they know their stuff and have not paid much attention to much else. If they are recommending string trackers and expandable broad heads as you have stated they know little about modern archery tackle and cross bows. As I stated earlier, traditional archery is my thing but I 'm well aware of the potential of the modern cross bow and would never make comments like you have stated they are making to new group of hunters. If you are going to teach new hunters you must be advised yourself on today's equipment and not make such ill advised statements to students you are teaching. I can't fathom someone that is a traditional archer at heart telling people that expandable are way to go, just plain bad ill informed advice period.

[Hunt it]

I will back up my traditional claims so you see I'm not full of bs.

[Hunt it]

Here is another.

[Hunt it]

I have been hunting with longbow most of my life and it is my true passion. However I use a cross bow when situation dictates better success, now using a 380 for hog hunting at night in Texas and for some deer and moose hunting. There are many hunting situations where you are handicapped too much by traditional, I am a hunter at heart and I am willing to use whatever tackle allows me to enjoy the time afield with friends. Last but not least we owe it to the animals we hunt to use the most effective tools for the situation at hand.