MNR Harvest Report

[colouredchameleon]

im getting frustrated listening and reading hunter comments about the mnr biologists. It seems the folks I hear and read would prefer they abandon Science altogether in favour of anecdotal rash judgements. This notion is stupid of you ask me, just plain stupid.

The basis of science are trends in data, not joe blow from Timmin seeing less moose for a couple years. I understand that it's frustrating that they need to see a 5 or 10 year trend before they make a major move but what s the alternative? Guessing.....no thanks. Unless someone here is floating a a better new way for humanity to evaluate its surroundings, I think we should stick with science and let people with doctorates in biology evaluate proper data then react accordingly with management decisions.

Yes they will always be 5 years behind the curve, but what is the other realistic option?

They will make changes to the moose tag system, then evaluate those changes over five years. What is the other option here?

In my experience dealing with MNR is that the trend data and well establish science has little to do when it comes to some of thier management decisions.
Moose hunting is a prime example population management of licened hunter tag quotas has more to do with land claims negotiations back room deals .
Along with a Estimated Maximum Number of Licenced Hunter Limit vs C.O. workload Quota for each WMU.

[paulaboutform]

I never took this as an attack on biologists or the mnr. My understanding was the talk of political interference with no regard for actual wildlife biology from a true conservation standing. An immediate example is in my own backyard in B.C.. An area up north on the Stikine River has an ample enough grizzly population to support having a general tag rather than a L.E.H. draw. It is extremely remote being accessible only by jet boat or horse back. It was made L.E.H. only for political reasons, admitted to me directly by a provincial wildlife biologist. Then when Ujal Dosange was running for premier, he promised to end the grizzly hunt altogether trying to get the green/activist vote, which he got. Anyway, I'm not trying to hijack your thread Don, I think we're all in agreement about letting our biologists do there job scientifically without being directed by political motivation or having their findings ignored in lieu of politically correctness.

[swiftfox]

I have not posted for a long time but I am back. First off thank you Boo for your help. I still owe you a beer or two may be three. As with our govt. what can I say boys. our govt is taking our hunting and fishing dollars for years and we get less results. our tags for deer, bear and moose have changed ( try to get into pool A for moose unless you have a group that has had a tag for a long time. with the deer we lost almost 1200 (correct me if I am wrong) tags in Ontario this year. No spring bear hunt. Ask the people in the north what they think of that. It was what kept the mom and pup hunting resorts going to spring then winter hunts for deer and moose. We all have to make a living. Some of us dream of going on a hunt that we have saved up for perhaps years. now it is not possible. yet we pay and pay. Our tag and outdoor cards will cost us 2.00 to renew and 2.00 for our tags each one deer,bear and moose so it not 2.00 bucks do the math. I have yet to see a MNR person near where I live in 5 years now. not even close to where I hunt, and I live in a area where we have no close MNR office. Where are my fee's going. sorry for the rant, maybe we could get rick mercer to do it better.

[Species8472]

The "joke", as it were, starts at the top with the Premier and then the minister. When they accept millions of dollars of donations from a plastic mold company that was against bear hunting, resulting in the death of the spring bear hunt, the government becomes no more than a prostitute.

Carthago Delenda Est!!!!

[Pydpiper]

My survey dissappeared off the fridge. It likely has a crayon drawing of a cat on somewhere now, knowing my daughters.
I try to fill them in, with the card missing I will see if I can find the online survey, now that I know it exists.
I spoke to out biologist quite frequently for a good many years, always interesting stuff. Been a lot of changes in our local office as of late, mostly retirements that has kept me from staying in touch.
I always thought they could hold back next year's tag options from a hunter who did not complete the survey, I am guessing by some of the comments here that was incorrect information.

[Ont_Excal]

My survey dissappeared off the fridge. It likely has a crayon drawing of a cat on somewhere now, knowing my daughters.
I try to fill them in, with the card missing I will see if I can find the online survey, now that I know it exists.
I spoke to out biologist quite frequently for a good many years, always interesting stuff. Been a lot of changes in our local office as of late, mostly retirements that has kept me from staying in touch.
I always thought they could hold back next year's tag options from a hunter who did not complete the survey, I am guessing by some of the comments here that was incorrect information.

Mandatory deer reporting was eliminated quite a number of years ago.
I can remember a time when there were check stations during the controlled hunt.
In Rondeau Park there was an annual deer survey by MNR staff and volunteers.
Because of park geography we were able to do a physical count manually.
It wasn't long ago I could walk into an MNR office and talk to a biologist or some other service specialist. While there I could buy all my licences. The office was a good source of maps and information.
Now Chatham district has been eliminated and all services were put on Aylmer's back.
All services have been cut back and they have the gall to increase fees.

My argument has never been with biologists or any staff.
The management of OUR resources has become political over the years.
For far too long we have had natural resource ministers appointed by the premier who have absolutely no concept of what's involved other than the political ramifications.

Now it's just about how much money they can siphon out of our wallets.
After all is said and done, we still will not see a balanced budget and any hope for the future.

[amythntr]

The "joke", as it were, starts at the top with the Premier and then the minister. When they accept millions of dollars of donations from a plastic mold company that was against bear hunting, resulting in the death of the spring bear hunt, the government becomes no more than a prostitute.
Our rapidly declining numbers of hunting licences make it easy worse.
Not to defend the MNR, but graduating from Sir Sandford Fleming College as a Forestry Technician and on occasion working with a CO who's office I shared as an Assistant Park Superintendent, I know it's not all to be blamed on the MNR itself. Also, having first hand knowledge by way of battling with the MOE for the last 3 years I see more of how things work and I place more emphasis on the Premier.
The Premiers all are concerned with future votes rather than doing the right thing. Bottom line, it's all about the money and power. Money for the next election. We hunters are a declining number so we are a declining vote. The Premiers hand down directives and they are followed if the ministers of the various ministries get the boot.

...and I thought you were initially talking about NJ politics until I read MOE...we have Larry and Curley down in the states to form the trio of the "The Stooges."

Anthony