Ontario Moose Hunting Changes Coming Down The Pipe

[colouredchameleon]

http://apps.mnr.gov.on.ca/public/files/ ... easons.pdf



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-b ... -1.2948233

[galamb]

Yes, they are following through on some recommendations that were made quite a few years back to change/restrict the calf harvest (first proposed in 2009) - https://dr6j45jk9xcmk.cloudfront.net/do ... 263995.pdf

There is a place where you can leave comments (for the Government) on the proposed changes - http://www.ebr.gov.on.ca/ERS-WEB-Extern ... anguage=en

So moose tags are going up in price, plus there is a 2 buck (plus tax) convenience fee tacked on and then they are (most probably) restricting the calf harvest to a 2 week period during the last two weeks of October.

In the northern WMU's, such as 25 where I hunt, that is too late in the season to go hunting (the Moose season opens the third week of September in the extreme northern wmu's and you don't want to be up there the end of October - weather could go either way and kill you in a hurry).

So effectively, this change will stop all calf harvests in some wmu's and inconvenience all others who do not pull an adult tag.

[Hunt it]

Can't make everyone happy. They are on the right track, trying at least to make changes to save moose herd and the hunt.

[colouredchameleon]

[quote="Hunt it"]Can't make everyone happy. They are on the right track, trying at least to make changes to save moose herd and the hunt.[/quote

I say BS.
But sometimes people have to learn the hardway. .

[Hunt it]

John Kaplanis, quoted in the story is a good friend of mine. We have discussed the issues and I have read a lot of the research material he has obtained. He is VERY involved in this whole process. He has seen the moose population decrease in his area just south west of Thunder Bay first hand. John is one of us, a truly dedicated Hunter and trapper that gives way more than he takes for our cause. He has been studying the decrease from all angles and he believes this is a good step. I can assure you he would not agree unless he felt it was a step in the right direction. I have to say that those that live, eat and breath hunting in the affected areas know and see this better than those of us that live in the South and travel north to hunt a few weeks of the year. My friend would not stand for BS I can assure you of that.

[colouredchameleon]

What needs to be studied is John Kaplanis's motives.

[galamb]

I really don't mind "doing my part" if the "other parts" are being addressed as well.

There are a number of good tracking studies out there, done by various university students working on their thesis or whatever that show -

the mortality rate of calves in any areas studied is "high", but,

most of them are dead "before" hunting season with disease, bears, wolves, ticks etc taking them down or habitat is being "shifted" because deer are being pushed into the area by southern development etc.

The last 5 years of harvest data in the WMU where I hunt shows a few things - firstly, of the 150'ish adult tags that get allotted only about 18% of them get "filled". Second, the "average" number of calves harvested in any given year is three (3), as in one, two, three calves.

So it's the "blanket approach" that bugs me. I mean if saving three calves is going to ensure moose hunting where I hunt until I am too old to go anymore, then I'm on board.

But if my moose hunting trip is effectively cancelled just because some WMU's that have all kinds of other pressures, located over 1000 miles away need to have calf harvests curtailed, then I'm "not ok" with that.

And if curtailing calf harvests is the way to go, why not add them into the lottery like they already are in some of the WMU's bordering Algonquin park.

If you don't want me to hunt them at least be honest about that - cancel the season all together or make me "draw" for a tag. Don't restrict the season so badly that it's not viable but still allows them to say "what are crying about - there is a season".

Because if we need to "save the calves" then why is there "any uncontrolled harvest season quota" at all.

If all three calves in my area get shot in the same week, what does it matter "what week" they got shot in?

[colouredchameleon]

Double post

[colouredchameleon]

"galamb"


First of all I agreed with pretty much everything you say. One of the most on point responses I have read to date.
The area where I disagree is the reference to Pembroke Area as an option.
The only benefit to the MNR using the calf tag draw system was.
An immediate 75% reduction of eligible Licenced Moose Hunters.
It was sold to the hunters as a program, which was to be temporary until the herd reached its target goal.
Well it has now been in place for 11 years, two years past the END DATE presented by the MNR
Surprize, Surprize the MNR have no intention of returning to the hunt back to status quo.
In fact they proclaim the herd has not increased as they predicted. But anyone who hunts the area knows to this to be political BS.
The Licenced hunters in the area since the programs was implemented have only seen a modest increase in available draw tags. And in some cases reductions
That cannot be said however for the non-Licenced hunter quota for the area.


As to the NEW SEASON Proposals. (more like a done deal it would be naive to think otherwise)


I PREDICT there will very little direct herd growth resulting from the new measures in fact I suggest it could result in an increased calf harvest due to a more focused hunting period, combined with increased predation along with opportunistic Unlicensed harvesting of unprotected orphaned calf’s at the Adult kill sites.
The Non-licensed Hunter is not and most likely will not be restricted from harvesting calf during the Licenced Hunter Adult Only Seasons therefore will be able to exploit every opportunity and easily swoop in to a kill site after a Adult Cow is harvested by a Licenced Hunter / group and pick off any vulnerable unprotected calf(s) that always tend to linger at the kill site for hours if not days afterwards" This is a fact that any SEASONED KNOWLEDGEABLE WELL VERSED HUNTER ON THE SUBJECT SHOULD KNOW and easily predict."

[Hunt it]

What needs to be studied is John Kaplanis's motives.

You are welcome to study John's motives, I'll wait for your discovery!

He is one of the good guys looking out for hunters and fishermen/women. There are very few that eat and breath hunting and fishing that work as hard to protect our rights than John.I'd really prefer you to research his efforts as there is no shortage of issues that he has devoted countless hours for our cause. I have known And hunted with John for over 20 years. His wife and kids all share his passion for the outdoors and the hunt. He started the Nothwestern Sportsmens Alliance because of way too many decisions being made in the Golden Horseshoe and not in his back yard where they needed to be.

He would like to see and hunt moose in the area he has lived and hunted moose all his life. Some areas are being effected much worse than others. In the unit I hunt the moose numbers are doing very well and we see increased numbers every year. The deer carrying brain worm into moose areas has wiped out countless moose. The increase in wolf numbers and bear numbers in specific areas is also causing problems. These problems are not going to remain area specific, they will spread and migrate over time.

There is now solid quick fix. Many ideas will need to be tried and hopefully all will have a cumulated positive impact on moose numbers. If we desire our kids and grandkids to carry on the great tradition of moose hunting we cannot sit by and do nothing.

[XCaddis]

I am all about conservation and preserving the herd. The MNR also needs to grow some and address Native overhunting and the selling of moose to non-natives. Hunting with trucks and spotlights at night aren't a traditional native hunting method and some lines need to be drawn here.

Why should we do everything to preserve the herd while natives are allowed to do whatever they want whenever they want to do it....and no, I know its not an entire population...but its being done in Ontario non the less.

[galamb]

From your observation of the Calf tag program east of Algonquin that in itself is valuable information.

At least in those (what 2 or 3 WMU's - don't remember for sure now), controlling the calf hunt has NOT achieved the desired results, so what indication is there that, that failed model, in and of itself, will produce the desired results in the wider province?

I'm still not saying that it couldn't be part of the overall solution, but obviously, absent of other solutions working in concert, it's not going to be enough.

I would like to see if any study or interpretation has been done to show whether the cancellation of the spring bear hunt has had a measurable effect on the moose population.

A number of studies, in areas including Ontario show that in areas with high bear/wolf populations the loss of calves to predators is greater (don't need a science degree to figure that).

So while it won't help with votes in the cities, why isn't the reduction of calf hunting being paired with expanded bear hunting opportunities (total reintroduction of the spring hunt) - the bear population certainly isn't hurting.

Wouldn't that help some calves survive? I have seen estimates that 10 to 20 percent of calves fall to bears and wolves, somewhat greater than hunting - 10 to 15% is the estimate based on harvest data (the largest killer of calves is natural causes in the first few months of life including disease, malnutrition, parasites etc).

So if we could bring the predators "in line" AND reduce the calf harvest, wouldn't we have a greater impact?

And that's why I see it more as - tick a few hunters off and nobody cares - they aren't a big enough "political block" to worry about - but re-open a season for Yogi and you lose thousands of Toronto votes, even though that would have, at least as great a conservation impact on moose populations as curtailing the hunt.

I just don't want to have to carry the whole future on my shoulders if no one else is willing to help out a bit..

I do however still consider myself lucky. I hunt a uber-remote WMU and with a "party of 2" we pull an adult tag every second year - but given that I may only have 10 more moose hunting seasons left before I'm too old to "rough it", I just don't want to miss half of those hunting seasons because I'm considered the "only solution" to the problem knowing that even if I never hunted again it just wouldn't make a significant difference since nothing else is being done.

[colouredchameleon]

DP

[colouredchameleon]

Good Reads


http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?ad ... cles_id=52


http://www.bafn.ca/harvesting.html


http://www.algonquinsofpikwakanagan.com ... 20copy.pdf


A

[Hunt it]

The warming trend has also created a surplus of ticks which are slowly killing off strong animals. MNR reports moose with over 20,000 ticks on one animal. Bears having similar problems. Ticks lead to loss of hair and animals die of hypothermia.

Predators are hard to control to the extent they need to be. Trapping is a dying tradition, not many young people taking up trapping. The native harvest is one of the hot potatoes in certain areas, no one has answer or solution to that one.